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Gilbert Pierce
12-07-2007, 11:58 AM
I Would like to see some pictures of experimental Shortwing Piper projects or flying airplanes.

Stephen
12-07-2007, 03:12 PM
I would love to see what Rupp is up to lately.

Airwrench
12-10-2007, 01:23 AM
Gang, here are a couple experimental "Producer" pics - Steve
http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircrafts/small/077/077252.jpg
http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircrafts/small/020/020670.jpg

Student Pilot
12-10-2007, 01:59 AM
In the Producer does the rear seat go back or is the fuselage extension aft of the rear seat?

Steve Pierce
12-10-2007, 07:29 AM
Awesome Steve, welcome.

Frankenpacer
12-10-2007, 02:21 PM
You have to wonder why Piper didn't bring a "Producer" type to market.

Stephen
12-10-2007, 06:03 PM
The PA-14.

Frankenpacer
12-10-2007, 06:27 PM
Some of the Producer type have 3 doors, are 4 inches wider than a PA-22, and run 220+ HP :o ... That's what I'm talking about! The PA-14 is a toy in comparison.

Stephen
12-10-2007, 09:19 PM
Yes, the PA 14 is somewhat under powered. Which, maybe some of the issue for the Producer, it takes a bunch of power to perform.

Airwrench
12-12-2007, 01:55 AM
The certified " Producers" are approved up to 180HP and mine (N1335K) is equiped with a 160 HP. N915RD is set up with a 180HP. I will, (and have) gone heads up with the Super Cubs. Check the numbers for the Valdez STOL competition. I am just finising up a certified "Producer" that is equiped with a 150 HP and plan to do the test flights within the next couple of weeks. And I starting on another Experimental version that will have a 200 HP IO-360 Lyc on it. - Steve

Steve Pierce
12-12-2007, 07:21 AM
Steve, are you using the stock angle of incidence? What about on your experimental version? I noticed it looked like 35K had the thrustline modified, did it? Neat stuff, thanks for posting it.

Airwrench
12-13-2007, 12:24 PM
Steve, I've been working with Mark on angle of incidence ideas and thrustline mods also. 35k is set up with a minor thrustline mod, but no incidence change. - Steve

Steve Pierce
12-13-2007, 12:33 PM
I take it you didn't go the full 4 degrees? I have a copy of the engine mount drawing and it verifies the 4 degrees down from the Clipper, Pacer, Tri-Pacer and the 150 hp Pawnee. They all have the same basic mount except for brackets etc.

I wonder how much the angle of incidence from a Super Cub would effect cruise and slow flight on a Pacer or Producer?

stevesaircraft(Bri)
12-23-2007, 11:45 PM
Steve

I cant seem to find all my pictures of the Daringer. Next time he comes by with it I will have to shoot a few. I do know his mods though.

1956 tri-pacer modified.
Firewall moved 6 inches forward.
Dash moved 4 inches forward of original location.
Cabin raised 2 inches (accomplished by raising the wing attach points)
Fuselage extended 18 inches in the tail.
Fuselage modified to remove the center back stringer and flatten out the back of the aircraft.
Elevators extended to match rudder. (about 4 inches)
Left hand door hinged at front.
Maule struts on homemade extended gear.
0-360 converted helicopter engine. Zero thrustline engine mount. Constant speed propellor.
Modified Taylorcraft airfoil. (Nose of airfoil pitched down slightly)
Cessna 172 flaps and tracks.
Supercub spars, squared off wingtips.
Ailerons were built to fill the gap. Verry long and deep.

Brian.

Wheelie Wayne
12-24-2007, 12:34 AM
Brian, what was the reason for moving the firewall forward 6"? I would not think the modest 18" fuselage extension would require that change. Pacers can be pretty close to the forward CG anyway, I would think this would compound that problem.

pistoncan
12-24-2007, 09:34 AM
Brian, I don;t know for sure, but I don;t think its a CG issue, more likely a leg room issue. I know when you add toe brakes you have to move the rudder bar back 2 inches to accomidate the cylinders. If you are tall, there wasn;t enough leg room to start with. (hence the seat back modification to gain 1 1/2 inches, which really restricts the rear seat leg room) moving the firewall and panel forward and you could leave the seat alone. I would love to have another 4 inches of leg room. Gonna have to think about that mod. Gary

stevesaircraft(Bri)
12-27-2007, 12:32 AM
Its a CG and leg room issue.

He stretched his airplane to keep the lengths as that of a Super Cub. CG of the engine to wing leading edge is the same and length and the fueselage is the same to the tail.
I think I may have screwed up the fueselage extention number in the back to. I was thinking 18 inches, but it may have been only 12 for a total of 18 overall. Cant remember now.
As far as compounding the nose heavyness, it dosent. When you add all the extra weight in wings, fueselage extention, extended baggage, ect, it winds up being about the same. His weight came in at 1320 on 31 inch bushwheels. Original empty weight of the Tri-Pacer was somewhere around 1200. Our 0-360 A1P constant speed Pacer is 1230. So He did a verry good job of keeping things light.

Brian.

stevesaircraft(Bri)
01-03-2008, 06:44 PM
Boy did I screw up.

I was just looking at my original post on Supercub.org and relized that I got most of the numbers wrong. Look here http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11721&highlight=daringer for a couple of pictures and the correct modification list on the airplane. He will be in tomorrow and I can take a few more pictures and post either tomorrow night or next week.

Brian.

pistoncan
01-04-2008, 01:46 AM
Steve, When he moved the firewall forward 6 inchs, how did that affect the two tubes under (behind) the windshield? Did he have to make a special windshield, or did they somehow keep the angle of those two tubes the same? Thanks

Stephen
01-04-2008, 11:22 AM
Brian, I saw this project a couple of summers ago when I stopped in. How does it perform?[attachment=0:2f21nd2w]Daringer_Flys_019.jpg[/attachment:2f21nd2w]

stevesaircraft(Bri)
01-04-2008, 10:31 PM
Stephen,

Those pictures are of the Daringer. It performes very well. He can stall it at 35 and cruises at around 120 with the 31 bushwheels on it. He has a set of 8:50 that he wants to put on it to see what type of speed he can get out of it but has not done so yet.

He was in today for an inspection and I found out that I was wrong on some of the mesurments I gave earlier. He pushed the firewall out 6 inches, extended the tail 25 inches and raised the cabin 2 inches. It has a 0-360 on the nose with 80 inch constant speed prop on a 0 thrustline engine mount.

Pistoncan,

He extended the firewall just forward of the front door post. So everything from the dash forward is the same. He did weld in 2 support tubes that angle from the dash to the front door cluster. I have a picture of that to make it a little more clear.

The airplane is verry semetrical in its apperance and if you did not know that he started with a Pacer frame you would never know it from just looking at it. It is also a very large airplane. I am 6 foot 2 and can stand upright under the wing.

Brian.

[attachment=2:2xf20227]007.JPG[/attachment:2xf20227]

[attachment=1:2xf20227]008.JPG[/attachment:2xf20227]

[attachment=0:2xf20227]004.JPG[/attachment:2xf20227]

stevesaircraft(Bri)
01-04-2008, 10:34 PM
More pics

[attachment=2:1a14882i]005.JPG[/attachment:1a14882i]

[attachment=1:1a14882i]006.JPG[/attachment:1a14882i]

[attachment=0:1a14882i]017.JPG[/attachment:1a14882i]

stevesaircraft(Bri)
01-04-2008, 10:38 PM
And just a few more

[attachment=2:7v9sr747]011.JPG[/attachment:7v9sr747]

[attachment=0:7v9sr747]016.JPG[/attachment:7v9sr747]

[attachment=1:7v9sr747]010.JPG[/attachment:7v9sr747]

stretchedpacer
01-10-2008, 12:00 AM
Not sure if it will be of interest to anyone but here are two (hopefully) pictures of my project. At this point I am finishing up the fabric formers and will be going back to install the appropriate brackets to install dual sticks which I finished fabricating tonight.

Brad

Steve Pierce
01-10-2008, 08:35 AM
Looks nice Brad.

stretchedpacer
01-10-2008, 10:43 AM
Thanks Steve,

I just realized the pictures I posted are somewhat huge. I apologize for that.
There are certainly some things I might have done differently if I were to do it over but overall Im pretty happy with where I am right now. In particular I would have cut the fuselage at a different point to avoid having to add some of the fabric formers I have had to add. Since I am using the aircraft spruce boxed .032 aluminum formers for most of them the weight it negligible - but it all adds up. My goal is to keep it as light as possible with a minimum of bells and whistles if I can. On a seperate note, I finished the sticks the other night and will try to post a mocked up picture with them some time when I can get my camera to download. Right now it has the yokes in it but I built the stick setup and would rather have them.

Brad

Stephen
01-10-2008, 11:51 AM
Nice work!!

160 exp clipper
01-27-2008, 06:00 PM
Attached is a Picture of my experimantal clipper 160 hp, wings 1' longer each side, fuselage 1' longer between trailing edge of wing and leading edge of horizontal. Skiplane for wintertime ops.

160 exp clipper
01-27-2008, 06:06 PM
Note the white "duct" tape on the engine cowling openings to cut down on the airflow when it's 30 below zero.

Steve Pierce
01-27-2008, 09:07 PM
I think I saw your Clipper at Sun & Fun several years ago. I even have some pictures of it.

cook11
11-02-2010, 12:48 AM
1657165616551654
This is a modified copy of an original pacer. This is not a Pa-22/20 conversion. The aircraft was built by Harold Kadey from Ontario Canada from a scrapped Pa-20. My father rebuilt it in the late 70's early 80's and then it was my turn in 2000's. The Pacer is powered by a Lycoming 0-320 160hp. The gear is spread out more than a stock pacer and the Pilot-Copilot doors are the same "seaplane style" The rear passenger door is deleted. If I were to do it again I would put rear doors on either side to make it a four door. I would like to put a pair of Monocoupe styled wheel pants or Taylorcraft/Aeronca Pants on it.

cook11
11-08-2010, 10:05 AM
16661665

I took these pictures last week.

Scott
12-04-2010, 09:44 AM
There is a stretched, yellow Tri Pacer (experimental/exhibition) in this video at about the 1 minute mark. This particular aircraft is powered by a 0-320, and is a pretty amazing performer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnweuyZ_-r4

pistoncan
12-04-2010, 10:41 AM
Here is the engine for my LSA project. It is a 100 HP chevy corvair. Bored out .030, Nitrated and magnafluxed crackshaft turned .010. Forged pistons. Redundant ignition with dual coils and a dual point distributor (it will eventually be one electronic and one point) Sidedraft carb. I am using the bird cage from a PA22 but with an all new tail 24 inches longer than a vagabond. I intend to use a Trimmer syle landing gear.

Steve Pierce
12-04-2010, 02:35 PM
Looking good Gary.

Stephen
12-05-2010, 11:50 AM
There is a stretched, yellow Tri Pacer (experimental/exhibition) in this video at about the 1 minute mark. This particular aircraft is powered by a 0-320, and is a pretty amazing performer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnweuyZ_-r4

Gotto love those 150 flyby's.

Curly
12-05-2010, 08:29 PM
Man I love those low "strip inspections" you blokes do!

And the music was great - best Aussie rock and roll band of all time!
The decibel level that I play that piece depends on:
(1) Red wine level Nil - Is Joy about - 2
(2) Red wine level low -Joy not about - 4
(3) Red wine level medium -Joy not about - 6
(3) Red wine level high - don't care - let her rip - until the speakers vibrate! :wink:

pistoncan
12-06-2010, 11:48 AM
I don't know if anyone would be interested in this but Im going to throw up some pictures and see. For my project I need a propeller that turns the oppostie direction as most american engines. (british engines also turn this way) I have been studying several books on prop carving and made some interesting discoveries. The real work of the prop is done by the back side of the prop. the front is just an airfoil.
The pitch is determined by the angle of the backside as it cuts through the air. How many inches does it move through one revolution.
Balance is critical, but it isn't impossible to do yourself with the right tools.
Modern glues and fibers have changed how props are constructed.
I thought about this and realized that I could save alot of time and money by cutting down a pusher prop. I found a sensenish 37 inch pitch airboat propeller that had lost one of its metal leading edges. WIth this I had the right materials and the right pitch. I just didn;t have the right shape. I laid out the stations of the blades per the instructions and proceeded to bandsaw out the proper aircraft shape. I then had to make templates of each station to match the airfol to the template. The hard part is making blade two match blade one. I did not touch the backside of the blades as they are correct from the factory. (I Hope) I then have to balance the propeller on the balancing machine. pictured. I will then lay kevlar along the tips of the blades as wear protection. It should be interesting to see how it goes.

Steve Pierce
12-06-2010, 06:55 PM
Awesome again Gary. Cool stuff.

JohnW
12-06-2010, 08:19 PM
I agree. That's awesome, and "cool stuff".

Just so we are all on the same page...the [usually painted flat black] side of a prop (that the pilot can "see" when seated behind the prop, in the airplane; most easily before the engine is started) is called the "face of the prop", as in "facing the pilot sitting in the seat". The "front" side of the prop (that you can usually see, like when you are walking up to an open hangar door when the airplane inside has been "pushed back into the hangar") is called the "back of the prop". The back faces FORWARD to the line of flight and is the first side through the air, in flight. The "back" being called that which actually is the side most towards the "front" of the airplane makes the "face" of the prop the "front", since there can only BE one "back" side and one "front" side. It is this way in all "English-speaking" Countries.

Not only "awesome", and "cool"...but I would add "ambitious", as well. I repeat: "...for the Education and Recreation of the Builder." Lookin' good.

Stephen
12-06-2010, 11:40 PM
Gary, thanks for the update...great work!!

chrisg
12-07-2010, 01:03 PM
This is a nice looking experimental bush pacer. Slotted wings, cub gear, etc...

http://www.shortwingsupercub.com

Pacesetter1
12-16-2010, 08:07 AM
Hi , I am new here. Here's a picture of my exp pacer. Built in 2006, started life as a '53 PA 22-150 . I changed it to a taildragger, added cessna wings, an extra door on left, and much more. Two years ago, I changed it to a Lyc 180 with a 0360-J2A. Updated the panel at the same time. Now thinking of installing Trio Pro Pilot autopilot. Sam

Steve Pierce
12-16-2010, 08:21 AM
Nice, why a Cessna wing and what did it take to make it fit?

Throttle Pusher
12-16-2010, 08:35 PM
Alot of people with the PA22-20 install the 180 hp O-360.Why not install the O-360 200 hp?
Is it becouse of the extra wieght?