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View Full Version : Disk Brake upgrade for 1955 PA22-150



Glen Geller
03-31-2008, 10:18 PM
Hi Folks,
This has been addressed elswhere ad nauseum, but I hope I can get a definitive answer to the nagging question:
What is the best/easiest/surefire-sign-off/economical route to convert the original drum brakes to a more modern disk brake?
I think in addition to changing the brakes & wheels, I might also switch from the NRBB to the Steve's Master Cylinder (low-profile under the hood on my '55 PA22.)
Among the suggestions I have heard around the various water coolers are the Stinson 108 brakes from AC Spruce etc; Piper Cherokee; PA22-108 parts. Of course it is important to get them approved by the FSDO (we have a pretty good FSDO here at KHIO due to the great number of restorations and homebuilts in the region.)
And if the disks are installed does that mean stock Piper wheel pants will no longer fit (or will possibly fit with some modification?)
I have a very good A&P who knows his way around fabric Pipers for 50 years, but we wanted a consensus from the online gang to help avoid pitfalls.
What do you folks with disk brakes on your PA22's suggest? Spare no details please!
Thanks,
Glen

160STol
04-01-2008, 11:28 AM
Glen, I have the paperwork for installing disc brakes on a PA 22 135, 150, 160 It's the Williams STC paperwork with 3 pages of prints and details for which parts to use.It calls for parts off of Cessnas or Cherokees. I would like $50.00 for the paperwork. I used Cessna 150 master Cylinders on my exp. and the Disc brakes off the Williams STC . They work super, however I am sure you can't use your wheelpants without modifing them. Thanks Sam

Steve Pierce
04-01-2008, 12:23 PM
The Williams STC SA09150SC uses a wheel assembly 40-86 and brake assembly 30-55. I'm not sure what that is off of. Johnny sold most of his stuff to someone in Canada who advertises in the SWPC News. He might can help. According to the Type Certificate Data Sheet the disc brakes are only approved on the PA22-108. They are a 40-28 wheel assembly and I think I have a spare set of the wheel and brake combination. Univair has an STC SA91AL to replace the drum brakes on a PA22-150-160-135 with the PA22-108 wheels and disc brakes. I searched the STC data base and those are the only two STCs I could find. I have gotten and seen field approvals but we all know that can be easy or impossible depending on your own FSDO. Bodell brakes I thought were STC'd and you wouldn't have to cut the wheel pants.

Mr_Boondoggle
04-01-2008, 07:03 PM
I got a Field Approval, once, to install PA24-250 wheels and brakes on a PA22-160. But that was in the late 1980's. The Colt's gross weight is lower than the PA22 so I doubt FSDO would approve them. The Comanche brakes worked very well on the Tri-Pacer.

A good place to start is by calling Cleveland 1-800-BRAKING (Bra King)

Univair has an STC for disc brakes...that would be a lot easier than a field approval.

Pat
Indy, IN

pmanton
04-02-2008, 11:12 AM
I installed the "Stinson" brakes and a Steve's Aircraft brake booster on my PA-22. I opted for the Stinson kit since it was quite a bit cheaper than the components used on the Colt. I obtained a field approval for the installation. The Stinson kit fit perfectly. Univair was very helpful and supplied me with the correct spacer and bolts to make the installation. As for the wheel pants I don't care for them, but I can see that considerable modification would be required to fit them to the Cleveland Brakes.

Cheers:
Paul
N1431A
KPLU

Glen Geller
04-03-2008, 01:08 AM
Well thanks all, I think I agree with Paul, and it turns out my hangar-mate did the Univair/Stinson version (~$1014 for brakes/wheels/hdwr and $400 for Steve's Booster) and he sent me copies of the 337s and all the other stuff.
I'll be visiting my local FSDO shortly with all this paperwork and ask if they will approve it again: same FSDO office, same airport, same mechanic, identical plane! I am cautiously optimistic they will give me the green light to go ahead.
Next week will be big OT at work and that should finance the bulk of the expense.
Thanks again and don't be shy if you have more advice about this, I really appreciate it.
Cheers,
GG

Larry Huntley
04-03-2008, 08:05 PM
I used clevelands on my PA 22-160 many years ago. Called Cleveland ,told them what I wanted to do. Told them I did not want to buy new equipment. They said they didn't care and sent me all the paperwork for the whole assembly,blueprints and all. They are very helpful ,friendly people. I think my brakes came off an Arrow,can't remember. Still using the scott cylinder under the seat. I can skid the tires most anytime if I am not careful. Larry Huntley

Chris Iriarte
06-01-2016, 11:32 AM
So, I've been researching this topic on this site for a while and see quite a few options for the disc brake route for a PA-22. What is the most affordable route for someone willing to scour the Web for used parts?

Chris

Steve Pierce
06-01-2016, 08:36 PM
Field approval or Williams STC.

piperrocks2013
06-05-2016, 10:53 AM
Field approval or Williams STC.
Why couldn't A guy buy the Univair 199-23100 wheel kit used for the Pa22-20 gear?? Would they not fit??
Im after disc brakes now and the Univair 199-27600 used for the Tripacer and Colt is outrageous price. I do have the Williams STC for toe brakes but I'm going to spend near 1000$$$ on used parts all attach photo of the Williams STC Drawing. I like the idea of the Stinson Disc brakes just bolting on??? Maybe that's route to go Univair has that kit for 2000$ approx. any advise appreciated.

Brian
06-05-2016, 11:50 AM
That kit will work, I installed it on my 22/20 gear about a year ago. The advantage of this kit is the Univair TW STC SA45RM covers this kit under that STC so only a 337 form submital to make it Part 23 legal. If you purchase the Univair recommended inner and outer axel spacers you can use no larger than 7.00 X 6.00 tires. 8.00 and larger will rub the calipers. Many have found ways around this with making different width spacers. I took the easy way out and bought new 7.00 tires. Works for me and the strips I fly out of.

andya
06-05-2016, 11:54 AM
so I'm a little lost in the selections proposed, are yours the Univair Stinson brake kit or the Univair brake kit for the tailwheel gear conversion?

Brian
06-05-2016, 12:08 PM
Sorry for confusion Andy. Mine is the 199-23100 (tel:199-23100) kit, which is covered by the TW STC SA45RM. I tried to attach the wheel and brake eligibility doc to my previous post but the auto image resize that happens makes it too fuzzy to read.

Airwrench
06-05-2016, 12:36 PM
I installed the "Stinson" brakes and a Steve's Aircraft brake booster on my PA-22. I opted for the Stinson kit since it was quite a bit cheaper than the components used on the Colt. I obtained a field approval for the installation. The Stinson kit fit perfectly. Univair was very helpful and supplied me with the correct spacer and bolts to make the installation. As for the wheel pants I don't care for them, but I can see that considerable modification would be required to fit them to the Cleveland Brakes.

Cheers:
Paul
N1431A
KPLU

Univair holds the STC do this conversion, STC SA91AL. It is specifies installation per Stoddard Aero Service instruction Sheet No. 101 . Dated Nov 13, 1963. It specifies using Piper PA-22-108 Colt wheels and brakes. Digging deeper the Piper P/N's are a direct crossover to Cleveland P/N's 40-28 wheels, 30-18 brakes, and 75-16 torque plates. The 40-28 wheel assembly uses 164-105 brake discs.
If you can find Wheels and Brakes off of a Colt or those specific parts to build up the kit, you can buy the STC separately from Univair.

piperrocks2013
06-05-2016, 01:44 PM
Sorry for confusion Andy. Mine is the 199-23100 (tel:199-23100) kit, which is covered by the TW STC SA45RM. I tried to attach the wheel and brake eligibility doc to my previous post but the auto image resize that happens makes it too fuzzy to read.

Will 199-23100 fit on a Tripacer (nose gear) stock gear ??

Brian
06-05-2016, 04:01 PM
I would think so. The axel size and torque plate attachment are the same on the stock gear as the conversion gear. This would require a field approval in the US but if your in OM cat then go for it. Airframes Alaska has an equivalent dual puck kit for less $ if your in OM and don't care about STC.

piperrocks2013
06-05-2016, 05:04 PM
I would think so. The axel size and torque plate attachment are the same on the stock gear as the conversion gear. This would require a field approval in the US but if your in OM cat then go for it. Airframes Alaska has an equivalent dual puck kit for less $ if your in OM and don't care about STC.

Perfect Thanks!! I think this is the route I'm going to go! This way when I convert my plane to TD next year all have the new wheels and brakes already done. (I already have toe brakes installed). Thanks Brian for the clarification and will be calling Airframes Alaska.

Jared

piperrocks2013
06-16-2016, 10:08 PM
Good Evening purchased, the ABI 199-62 Break Assembly from Alaskan Airframe. Looking good :) Looks like all need a spacer any ideas where I can get one. All attach picture as you see the space. What is everyone thoughts. Everything else is fitting perfect. Just playing around on my spare gear, get it all perfect before installing it on KIS.

Jared

Brian
06-16-2016, 11:25 PM
You will probably need an inner and an outer spacer to achieve proper alignment of the rotor and caliper. At least that's the case with the Cleveland Kit I upgraded to. I bought the spacers from Univair per the part numbers they recommend but they were pricey. Some 1 1/2 ID steel tubing and some trial and error cut and fit would be my suggestion. Photos shows these two spacers along with the rest of the Cleveland kit as I was weighing them. I gained a little weight in the conversion. 9.0 Lbs for the new dual caliper disk brake kit per side vs. 6.6 Lbs per side for the stock drum brake assy.

Steve Pierce
06-17-2016, 06:23 AM
Cleveland makes both magnesium (lighter) and aluminum wheels. AKBW wheels are aluminum.

piperrocks2013
06-17-2016, 07:38 AM
You will probably need an inner and an outer spacer to achieve proper alignment of the rotor and caliper. At least that's the case with the Cleveland Kit I upgraded to. I bought the spacers from Univair per the part numbers they recommend but they were pricey. Some 1 1/2 ID steel tubing and some trial and error cut and fit would be my suggestion. Photos shows these two spacers along with the rest of the Cleveland kit as I was weighing them. I gained a little weight in the conversion. 9.0 Lbs for the new dual caliper disk brake kit per side vs. 6.6 Lbs per side for the stock drum brake assy.

Good Morning Brain, my spacers don't need to be that much. Im dealing with maybe 3/8" Play at the most will attach picture. But Brain!! Thanks you gave your picture gave perfect idea for a spacer. I have spare nose gear with spacers. All just grab one and cut it to size. All attach the picture all the max space Im playing with.


10694

Subsonic
06-17-2016, 04:52 PM
Pardon me folks if I'm asking a question you have previously pounded into the ground but I need to understand: Does STC SA45RM apply to a PA-22 Tri-Pacer 150, even though kit 199-23100 is listed for PA-22/20 and not PA-22? Somewhere I read that the FAA treats converted PA-22/20 as if they are still PA-22's. Is that true? Is that true for all STC's that are applicable to PA-22/20's? In that the FAA still considers them to all be equally applicable to PA-22's?
Thanks for your help. I flew my "new to me" '56 TP 150 four days ago for the first time, and it needs brakes in a bad sort of way...

Chris Iriarte
06-17-2016, 05:23 PM
SA45RM is Univair's Tri- to taildragger STC.

Chris

Subsonic
06-18-2016, 01:15 AM
Again,.. Does S45RM also apply to original PA-22's? Does the FAA consider a PA-22/20 the same as a PA-22? Any references and documentation appreciated. Thanks for the help. This Site rocks.