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Steve Pierce
11-04-2008, 07:35 PM
Cathy has been flying a friends Tri-Pacer and I noticed the bungees have been sagging a bit. A little investigation revealed 2 1080s were installed last time and it has always been my experience that that combination normally only last a year or so before the sag sets in. I ordered two 1280HD bungees and thought I would swap out the one 1080 since they were pretty new. Cathy removed the seats, put the tail stand on the tail guard, weighted the left wing at the tie down fitting and picked the front of the airplane up at the propeller via a prop sling and engine hoist until the right wheel cleared the ground.
1108
She then removed the top bolt out of the right hydrasorb, picked the right gear up enough to stick a milk crate under it and expose the bottom hydrasorb bolt, removed it, and wiggled the hyrdasorb out the top.
1107
I then cut one of the 1080s off and installed a 1280HD and she reversed the process to install. It was time for soccer practice so we will finish up tomorrow.
1109
1106 (http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1106&d=1278953598)
You can see the 1080 and 1280HD bungee installed closest in the picture and two 1080s on the far side. We will see how this works out because my Pacer and Brian's Tri-Pacer all have fairly new 1080s with a sag. :cry:

Larry Huntley
11-04-2008, 09:05 PM
That is how it works on my Tripacer except I put a barrel under the tailskid. I was wondering why some were pulling the hydrosorb out the bottom. Larry

Frank Green
11-05-2008, 07:38 AM
I pick mine up by the motormount at the fire wall. After taking out the hydros I put in a short length of chain so I can set her down while I take the hydros home to change. I use 2 1080HDs on a standard Tri and no problems. If you are using regular 1080s they are rated at 750lbs. each(1500). 1080HD are 900 lbs(1800). Your combination of one 1080 (750) and one 1280HD (950) yields a combo of 1700 lbs. 2 1080HDs are 1800 lbs. The difference is the 1080HDs are 5/8 diam. vs the 1280HD at 3/4 and the double 1080HDs fit on the Hydro and in the plane a little better.

JohnW
11-05-2008, 11:59 AM
That is how it works on my Tripacer except I put a barrel under the tailskid. I was wondering why some were pulling the hydrosorb out the bottom. Larry

Because...it's incredibly easier! You don't even have to remove the seats to change the bungee cords (and only unsnap ONE SIDE of the leatherette cover), and since you HAVE TO crawl underneath to remove the lower bolt on each HydroSorb anyway... what could POSSIBLY make more sense than "while you are RIGHT THERE" to put your foot on the lower half of the tire on that side, push the gearleg out/up "just enough" and TAKE THE SHOCK OUT, all in one motion? No messin' around with slippy-slidey on trash bags or grease plates, no leaning inside trying not to shake the airplane, no callisthenics to "wiggle the shock out" and by golly getting the top bolt in is "pleasantly possible" without messin' around with a comealong. Lookit...TRY it, you'll like it. Airplanes were MEANT to be "off the ground". You could STILL "chain binder" the gear and even set it back down on it's sneakers overnight, if it blows up yer skirt. Been there, done that (but I use an "old set" of HydroSorbs with 50 year old bungees on it).

I represent the remark: "Give an unreasonable task to a Lazy Man, and he'll find the easiest way." I suppose if you WANTED to do it the hardest way possible, you could find a way to take the bottom bolt out by working past the battery box from the "top"!!! You could always die grind the "superstructure" (or "birdcage", or "Piper channel") off enough to push out the bolt and weld a new piece back in when you are done...

Steve Pierce
11-05-2008, 12:20 PM
John, Isn't it kinda a pain to get the bolt out with the seat in? Took me a few minutes to pop the seats out and Cathy did the rest except for actually installing the bungee. She did it in the time it took me to spray a cross coat of dope on an aileron. What is the reference to "slippy-slidey on trash bags or grease plates" and "comealong"? I remember pulling it out through the bottom and pushing the wheel out with my leg, kinda heavy and cumbersome, this was way easier for me. ;)

Curly
11-05-2008, 04:21 PM
Steve - A wife who can change the bungees on a Tripacer!!!! - You surely are blessed - make sure you treat her right as she is definately a keeper.

Curly

smcnutt
11-05-2008, 04:46 PM
Steve - A wife who can change the bungees on a Tripacer!!!! - You surely are blessed - make sure you treat her right as she is definately a keeper.

Curly
...and she's a pilot http://www.shortwingpipers.org/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=515&p=4380#p4380 Now if you tell us she can cook, you might have a stampede heading to your doorstep! :lol:

JohnW
11-05-2008, 04:59 PM
llSteve; well, that's kinda my point...the garbage bags and/or grease plates have something to do with "letting the gear swing out to get the bottom bolts"...or sumpthin' (?) when you winch the gear TOGETHER (which is -again- my point!). YOU apparently are (not "apparently", you ARE!) talking about lifting the airplane up off the wheels. So am I! When you raise the aircraft off the wheels, GRAVITY keeps the gear together and the only reason I would refer to a comealong otherwise would be to LIFT THE AIRPLANE (and I think I have related my preferences about THAT enough times on the past. But then, my Posts are sometimes AWFULLY LONG and maybe some people don't read "all of them, all the time". Short attention span, I'd think ;) ).

What I have been taking exception with all this time is the "you don't have to pick the airplane up at all if you are winching the gear together" way of doing this task. Maybe...just MAYBE!...I misunderstand something about "another way to do it", but to ME, raising the airplane up off it's gear is the ONLY way to fly (pun intended!).

No, I have no problem removing the top bolt(s) with the seats in. I remove the nut, install a fine thread "hardware store" nut on only about 3/4 the thickness of the nut, put a 1/4" drift punch in the open part of the nut (so it bears on the end of the bolt and doesn't jump off sideways) and tap it forward with my handy-dandy rebar shanked, brass headed home made does everything hammer (I don't own any "Store bought" hammers except bodyman's hammers and a wee tiny ballpein and a 6 pound sledge ( for taking out stabilizer cross tubes. just kidding). Then there's an Estwing 20 oz claw hammer and it's framing cousin but they are only for wood, like building things like sheds and doing home renovations and the like). Once you get these bolts to move, I put a socket on the bolt (with a small breaker bar, not a ratchet) and slide a 7/16 wrench over the shank. Rotate the head back and forth and push on the underside of the head with the wrench and out she comes. I've had to use vice grips (and some awful dirty names, sometimes) but if they come that hard, they'll be needing new bolts anyway. But then I'm also of the "use new hardware" school of thought anyway.

For putting them back, I'm a big fan of "home made alignment studs" (long bolts with the heads cut off and put in the lathe and turned down a few thousandths -and of course, a taper ground on the end. A small hole in the "handle end" and a piece of forty thou' safetie wire makes recovery a snap when the "real" bolt chases it out of the holes. If I HAVE TO take out a seat or two, I certainly would...but normally if the airplane got new bungees every few years like they SHOULD, they aren't usually a problem.

Glen Geller
11-06-2008, 01:01 PM
I have replaced bungees on four or five PA22's, we also lift with an engine hoist from the motormount at the firewall, it requires removing the upper cowl (just four fasteners) but avoids possible damage to the prop/spinner/crankshaft/crankcase/motormounting hardware. My mechanic has done it via the motormount at the firewall method thousands of times since he was a young man in WWII.

Steve Pierce
11-06-2008, 01:39 PM
John, I must have missed that thread. I always pick it up. Easier to line up holes. Another note: Sometime the hydrasorb gets tweaked a bit and the holes won't line up. I try and install the hydrasorb in the same exact position as it came out. Sometimes if it is 180 degrees out it is hard to line up. The bullet alignment pins John mentioned are also a major help.

If you have a spreader bar the prop sling works nice because you don't have to remove cowling and fish a strap around all that stuff at the firewall. The prop holds the engine up in flight and have not heard of any problems doing it this way. Done it both ways for years with no problem either way but sometimes it isn't as easy or quick to use the engine mount. Whatever you do don't use the engine lift ring.

Zac Weidner
11-06-2008, 08:05 PM
I have a 160hp Tri-Pacer and it seems to be the general consensus for the combination of one 1080 and one 1280 on each hydrosorb. I previously purchased two sets of 1080HD's for my hydrosorbs but I don't want a saggy, restored airplane with new bungees. I also don't want to waste a set of bungees. I don't think that the unused set would last till the next replacement, or would they?

Frank Green
11-07-2008, 08:13 AM
A 1080 and a 1280 are both rated at 750s. (1500) 1080HDs are 900 Lbs. (1800) and fit the hydros better. Stick with the 1080HDs.

Steve Pierce
11-07-2008, 08:44 AM
1280HD is rated at 950 lbs. and is 3/4"x8" where as a 1080HD is rated at 900 lbs. and is 5/8"x8". I have put 1080HD on Clippers in the past and had them last 8 years and still didn't sag. Have installed 1080HDs on several Pacers and Tri-Pacers in recent years and they were sagging within the first year. I have read that the rubber compounds changed but don't know that for a fact. If I was going to install bungees on my Pacer or Tri-Pacer today I would install a 1080HD and then a 1280HD over the top. Fits fine and I know it will last.

As far as longevity in storage I don't think $40 several years from now would be worth the aggravation of installing an unknown. I store them in a dark locker between the time I order and install which is short. You might find someone who is fixing to change theirs out that will take a pair of your 1080s.

mjlossner
11-07-2008, 08:54 AM
I put a 1080HD and a 1280HD on our tri-Pacer Last year, don't notice any extra stiffness on sod runways and she sure sets up proud when you walk away her. I feel this is a perfect combination.
Mike

Frank Green
11-07-2008, 09:13 AM
Steve a Clipper is a different gear, narrow. We have a narrow gear 20 and run a single 1380 (1160 lbs.) and am very happy with that. If you have wide gear then yes you need a lot more. If I didn't want any give why have struts at all? I think the right choice is enough but not too much and that varies alot with the different gear combinations and useage that we each have. My 22 original Tri I am happy with 2 1080 HDs. I think alot of the confusion is the regular vs HD.

Zac Weidner
11-07-2008, 07:12 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I think I will probably go with a 1080HD and a 1280HD. Would anyone be up for a trade of one pair of 1080HD's for a pair of 1280HD's?

Lownslow
09-18-2009, 03:05 PM
Does anyone know where to locate that old video showing the bungee installation at the Piper factory? I want to arm-wrestle that guy. I think I can take him now.

Lou S.

Lownslow
09-22-2009, 09:48 PM
O.K. I found it. I know some of you have seen this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWZpmu30h94

The old armstrong method.

Lou

Lownslow
09-26-2009, 09:04 AM
Does anyone have experience building a bungee tool utilizing simple leverage, depicted in this video, to install bungees as potent as the 1080HD's? I am considering building one. I have 270 lbs here that is sitting around not doing much.

Lou S.

Stephen
09-29-2009, 11:23 AM
Thanks for sharing the video, this I believe is a common way to install bungees on Cubs. When I was much younger I made a tool like the one in the video, it was a bit exciting sometimes. Installing bungees on Pacers is much less exciting......unless your doing it at Steve's shop. That was a video to see...

Lownslow
09-29-2009, 04:37 PM
If you think I'm smart, you should see my brother. I have him on task to help me design the "armstrong" tool. I will let you know how it works out.

Lou S.

Frogdad
09-30-2009, 12:39 PM
Here are some photos of a home made bungee tool for Pacer hydrosorbs. It works pretty well.
If I had to make another one, I would lower the pivot point so the bungee stays parallel with the tool.[attachment=2:2omcp13y]bungee tool 1.jpg[/attachment:2omcp13y][attachment=1:2omcp13y]bungee tool 2.jpg[/attachment:2omcp13y][attachment=0:2omcp13y]bungee tool 3.jpg[/attachment:2omcp13y]

Lownslow
09-30-2009, 02:10 PM
Thanks for responding, but the pics might come in better 800 X 600. Can't see much the way they are. I do see you are using the idea I have around using an extension handle that slips on the round attachment stud of the hydrosorb. I intend to mount the other end of the hydrosorb at a fulcrum point on a piece of I-beam and set up a trip device on the member from which the bungee is stretched. I am also considering a separate lever instead of the extension handle with an attach point for hydrosorb at the base where the hydrosorb would swivel and slide along the I-beam as the lever is pulled and locked into place. The lever can be designed to enhance the distance of travel from start-to-finish and also be a much stronger means of providing the leverage. The handle you are using looks like it may be under some stress where it slides over the stud of the hydrosorb. Of course, this could be made with heavy material with a tight fit that would not give much. I'm still designing and would like to see the rest of your device.

Thanks, Lou

Steve Pierce
09-30-2009, 02:14 PM
I clicked on the pictures and can see the tool pretty good.

Frogdad
09-30-2009, 02:30 PM
Sorry. I forgot how to downsize photos. See if this is better.[attachment=0:35njdedd]bungee_tool_1.jpg[/attachment:35njdedd][attachment=2:35njdedd]bungee_tool_2.jpg[/attachment:35njdedd][attachment=1:35njdedd]bungee_tool_3.jpg[/attachment:35njdedd]

Lownslow
09-30-2009, 03:59 PM
O.K. The pictures were fine, and the smaller ones are better. Sorry about that. I am still technoligically compromised at times. I really like the tool you have. You just can't get much simpler than that, and I think it will work just as well as you have displayed. I will take your advice on the alignment and have the extension handle fabbed to fit nicely. I have a heavy Wilton vise mounted on my steel welding table that should handle the physical manipulation that will be required, and I will let the brisket, pork chops, mashed potatoes, and Blue Bell ice cream I have consumed since the last Edsel was made do the rest. I'll post some pics when it is done.

Thanks so much.

Lou S.

Tripod
11-15-2009, 08:57 PM
Steve - A wife who can change the bungees on a Tripacer!!!! - You surely are blessed - make sure you treat her right as she is definately a keeper.

Curly

Wow, I've had A & P's who turned a bit pale when I asked them to put new bungees on my hydrasorbs! That your wife can replace bungees, way cool!

Mine? Well, she came from a completely un-mechanical family background and it all rubbed off on her. No problem, though. I take care of the airplane (and cars and house and... ) and she does gourmet cooking every weekend. Good deal, I think. And she will fly with me anytime.

-dave

Lownslow
11-20-2009, 03:59 PM
Has anyone adressed having some slop in the lower attachments of the hydrosorb to the landing gear. The holes in my hydrosorb lower ends seem to be slightly larger than the bolt size. I find it hard to believe the holes became that way due to wear, but I guess it is possible. Almost seems like a bushing could be inserted or drilled out to accomodate a 3/8" bolt? Has anyone dealt with this situation by other means than replacing the hydrosorb?

Lownslow
12-17-2009, 03:05 PM
Here is a tool designed by my brother that worked nicely on two sets of hydrosorbs. He didn't like my idea of an "armstrong " tool (he is a little "light in the shorts" for that design). He came up with his own using a 3-stage car jack and a 1/2"drill - works awesomely. Way to go Clyde!

Lou S.

[attachment=0:3a9hyijw]Airplane pics 013 (Medium).jpg[/attachment:3a9hyijw][attachment=2:3a9hyijw]Airplane pics 017 (Medium).jpg[/attachment:3a9hyijw][attachment=1:3a9hyijw]Airplane pics 019 (Medium).jpg[/attachment:3a9hyijw]

Lownslow
12-17-2009, 03:06 PM
More pics[attachment=1:kqid5iag]Airplane pics 015 (Medium).jpg[/attachment:kqid5iag][attachment=0:kqid5iag]Airplane pics 025 (Medium).jpg[/attachment:kqid5iag]

Steve Pierce
12-17-2009, 04:18 PM
Now that is slick.

Curly
12-18-2009, 12:25 AM
Jeez Lou, your game - "A bit light in the shorts" comment to one of my brothers would have me ducking the inevitable right cross! (only jokin' Chops) :lol:

Good bit of gear tho' - well thought out.

Lownslow
12-18-2009, 01:24 AM
I did say he was smart. We have an "understanding". It has to do with mom liking me better growing up. He doesn't handle a crosswind very well and we have to tie him down on the very windy days. :o

Lou S.

Lownslow
12-18-2009, 03:46 AM
Greetings there Curly!

From Victoria, Texas

Lou S.

MN_flyer1
07-13-2010, 07:57 PM
After seeing this video my brother and pals managed to build one that works. Here are some pictures. I messed up and didn't get any pictures in use. It works the same as the video. With the short hydrosorbs you have to use a cheater pipe.

I hope this is good enough to get the idea.

video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWZpmu30h94 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWZpmu30h94)

Terry E
07-20-2010, 10:34 PM
I don't want to cheat the Stuarts out of selling there tool but I have one and it works great. If anyone needs to use it , for shipping its yours to use , I mean its nice to have the tool and I don't need to use it every day so PM me if you would like to use this great tool and we all can share it.

Terry

Steve Pierce
07-21-2010, 07:09 AM
Thanks Terry. I am sure everyone will appreciate your offer.

seagull
03-11-2011, 08:48 AM
lownslow, just now wanting to change my bungee cords on my 50 pacer, intimidated by them massive cords and saw your post. Any possibility of getting some of your pictures on the 3-stage car jack

Seagull

Bob Mac
03-11-2011, 07:02 PM
Is anybody still using the Tietmeyer tool on removed hydrosorb/bungee get togethers?

Lownslow
03-11-2011, 10:05 PM
O.K. I finally got to my home PC to get some pics out. This unit was made from a 80 something Ford Bronco 4X4 by Clyde "The Glide". Works like a charm.

Lou

seagull
03-14-2011, 08:24 AM
it looks great, managed to borrow a dangerous bungee tool, though it could be the last bungee cord I'd ever change. Will have to try a replicate your tool. Thanks for the effort
seagull

seagull
03-14-2011, 08:29 AM
Lou thanks for the pics. Mange to borrow a "suicide" bungee cord installation tool. Thought it might be the first and last bungee cord I'd ever install. Your looks a lot safer and certainly a lot less muscle power involved.
does 'Clyde the glide sell these units?

Seagull

Bob Mac
03-16-2011, 07:10 PM
Installed the 2 1080HD's on each of my hydrosorbs yesterday using the Tietmeyer tool that I have had since early '80's. Went very well but I have a warning for you youngsters: This tool is to a great degree "armstrong" and I can attest that the arms ain't as strong at 77 as they were at 50!! but neither is the brain.
Bob

Nathan Hiebert
03-17-2011, 11:42 AM
So I'm just wondering...Do you remove the old cords with the installation tool as well? If you were a real man, you'd just cut them off! (Just kidding) :)

MN_flyer1
03-17-2011, 12:54 PM
Since they are made of a pile of rubber bands cutting through them is generally uneventful.

Bob Mac
03-17-2011, 01:20 PM
Many years ago I bought a box of 1000 single edge eazor blades.
Since this is St. Patricks day I alwayts tell people the reason I talk so much is that my Irish mother told me that every 100% irish kid (like me) is born with an inexhaustable supply of words and must use them all up if he wants a happy hereafter.
Same with razor blades.

Nathan Hiebert
03-17-2011, 09:36 PM
In A&P school, they warned us not to cut the bungees for they would violently snap back. Is this not true?

stevesaircraft(Bri)
03-17-2011, 09:57 PM
I clamp the ears on one end of the hydrasorb in a vise and cut the cords off one at a time using my very dull pocket knife.....the vise jaws keeps the bungee cord from snapping around....Just don't get in a hurry and the cord will release its energy and stretch out slowly...

Brian.

MN_flyer1
03-17-2011, 10:05 PM
I will be honest I have not done a lot of them. The ones I did last year cut off very easily with a pocket knife. They were pretty old so that may have been a factor. As you cut into them, by sawing a few strands at a time, the remaining cord bands continue to stretch. Eventually they stretch to the point where there is not much power left. I would recommend a slow cut vs using a bolt cutter type of shear. Also if you can clamp the strut in a way so that any power released is directed away from you that is best. I am sure many on here have done it many different ways.

Bob Mac
03-17-2011, 11:11 PM
I have found that the easiest way is to use one of my single edge razor blades and slowly cut a few strands at a time. This eliminates any dangerous snap-back and goes easily and quickly. I can do this while holding the assembly in my non-cutting hand.
Just be careful.

awright
03-21-2011, 06:29 PM
I would love to be able to use the bungee tool. I have a 1950 PA-20 that is ready to have the bungees installed. my phone number is 916-601-0664. Please let me know what you would need from me.

Bob Hubbard
05-12-2015, 08:38 AM
How long should it take for a mechanic who has done the bungees several times already to do the job? The chap I talked with said 4hrs.@60hr + the bungess. How much are new bungees? My gear on the underside appears to be flush with the underside with full fuel. One of the prior respondents had said that If the gear are hanging down more than 1/4in , one might want to think about replacement.

Your thoughts please.

Thank you all.

All the best

Bob Hubbard

Brian
05-12-2015, 09:37 AM
Bob IMHO 4 hours is about right given the time it takes to hoist and safely support the plane to do this proceedure. And 60 per hour is very resonable. You should check your logs and see how old the bungees are and use that along with how they sag as criteria on when to consider replacement. I replace mine about every 4 years, but the 22/20 puts more strain on them. Take a look at the sag both after you pull the plane forward and again after pulling it backwards as toe in toe out has an effect on the sag depending on your gear alignment. 1080HD Bungees today cost about $50 per pair, so figure $125 with tax and shipping.

Bob Hubbard
05-12-2015, 03:46 PM
Very helpful information, Brian. Thank you. Do you know where I can get vented fuel caps?

Brian
05-12-2015, 04:51 PM
Bob click on this link to a similar thread on vented caps. Lots of good info.

http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/showthread.php?10127-Price-of-Fuel-Caps&highlight=fuel+caps

Jetfever
05-21-2015, 10:42 PM
Do you guys replace the worn rubber "bump stop" washers? Mine were just about gone.
I was not able to get the hydrosorb apart. I tried removing the roll pin, but I could not budge the thing apart.
Any ideas?

Steve Pierce
05-22-2015, 06:42 AM
I personally don't think the bumper does much for very long.

59pacer
05-22-2015, 06:47 AM
After removing the roll pin, I found I had to grip the hydrasorb shaft with something with 'soft jaws' so it wouldn't get scratched. Then the fitting just screwed off.

Jetfever
05-22-2015, 07:47 AM
Thanks, 59Pacer. I tried to unscrew the top fitting but it would not budge. The problem is I was not able to hold the fitting from turning. I was trying to think of a tool other than soft jaws that would hold the shaft. Scratching the shaft might cause damage to the fluid seal.

Thanks, Steve. I assume you are saying the bumpers are gone/ missing / worn out, every time you inspect a hydrosorb, and it is not worth the time hassle of changing them out?

If so, it will make the job go faster today.

Steve M.

pa20
05-22-2015, 10:10 AM
Steve,
Hate to see you not take advantage of your new parts. Split the bumper washer, put it on and glue the ends back together. Then, after thoroughly cleaning the cup on the fitting glue the bumper washer in.
I agree with Steve, that they likely don't last long, but what the heck..You have the washers, so use them!

Jetfever
05-22-2015, 10:19 AM
Will do. Thanks, Mark.

I was thinking of trying a wire loop clamp today. If that does not hold the shaft, I will split and glue the bumpers.

smcnutt
03-23-2017, 03:52 PM
Since Steve just referenced this thread as the place for good info on bungees, I thought I would post this interesting PDF on how to read the color codes and other useful info on the actual cords.11725

Just ordered a set of 1280HD & 1080HD from Wagaero. Current cost was about $130 including replacement hardware. We might have a bungee tool somewhere here on the field and I will ask around this weekend. Otherwise I might be looking for somebody on here that's willing to loan theirs out.

smcnutt
03-28-2017, 10:10 AM
Wag Aero was back-ordered on the 1080HD cords so I bought those from AS and they should arrive later this week. Curious that based on the date coding in the document above, the 1280HD's that came from Wag Aero are from the 4th quarter of either 2010 or 2015 (black/black/yellow) but I'm assuming that's 2015. I'm curious what date code will be on the 1080HD's from AS will be.

Again, based on that document, they have a pretty indefinite shelf-life anyway but really just curious about the stock a these places. However, it does make one wonder why they bothered to make a date-code a part of this product if they have an indefinite shelf-life?

andya
03-28-2017, 03:27 PM
they may have assumed that they would be installed within a month or so of the date code.
Not sure that's a good answer, but they may feel once installed they have a life.
bungees on the landing gear retract of a Commanche are required to be changed every three years via AD note.
apparently someone thought a gear extension problem was partially due to a bungee older than that.
I've had mine on my pacer for at least 6 years and it still sits tall. Or a tleast it did when I dropped it off to Brian.
Taxiing over bumps in our taxiway are still as jarring as when I first installed them.

Jim Hann
03-28-2017, 05:39 PM
Speaking of bungees, does anybody have a copy of the Bungee Buddy instructions? I have the tool but no clue how to use it!

Jim

Frank Green
03-28-2017, 06:39 PM
So a couple weeks ago I got a call from John W. Wanted to know if I could put bungees on Vag struts. Said I'd give it a try. Had to lengthen the claw out a bit but gave em a perfect even stretch and dropped em right on. Didn't even scratch the paint. The 2 pics of the press roll your head to the right.

Frank Green
03-28-2017, 07:04 PM
For more pics of my setup search "bungee cord installation tool"

ysifly2
03-28-2017, 07:58 PM
Speaking of bungees, does anybody have a copy of the Bungee Buddy instructions? I have the tool but no clue how to use it!

Jim

not sure if there are different bungee buddy tools... but at the following link (hopefully if I shared them properly) are some pictures and a couple of short video clips of when we changed out my bungees.

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/yqIwejcWydKg2EU2wRPVPiporgUaRALo66ZDAp7RfsI


Bryan

ysifly2
03-28-2017, 08:16 PM
Since Steve just referenced this thread as the place for good info on bungees, I thought I would post this interesting PDF on how to read the color codes and other useful info on the actual cords....

here's the actual mil-spec that is referenced in the Univair document... 11761

Old3pacer
03-28-2017, 08:31 PM
There is a youtube video of a guy using the bungee buddy.
It looks a little more complex than the automotive jack bungee hydrosorb installations shown on youtube

Steve Pierce
03-29-2017, 06:17 AM
Speaking of bungees, does anybody have a copy of the Bungee Buddy instructions? I have the tool but no clue how to use it!

Jim

I have the instructions. Probably be after S&F before I can copy.

pmanton
03-29-2017, 09:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY50ZKJsYAE

Jim Hann
03-29-2017, 09:55 AM
I have the instructions. Probably be after S&F before I can copy.
Thanks Steve! Wish I could be down there too, maybe next year!

Glen Geller
03-29-2017, 10:47 AM
We built one of these for our group (six Shortwings) and it works really well.
Starts with a mechanical jack from a Toyota truck or similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgL5JGSy748

(video not mine but shows operation very clearly.)

GG
#hangarbravothree

Jeff Pralle
03-29-2017, 04:59 PM
Here are a couple photos of my bungie tool. I don't have any of it in use. It is the easiest and safest I have used. Big, bulky, easy, safe. shock goes in the bottom center fitting, old strut attaches to the opposite end, bungie wraps the ears and hooks on the polished pipes a screwdriver is inserted in the holes. jack away! when at the proper stretch the ears line up with the hole in the polished fitting. Rock the strut to the side and the ear slides into the fitting. pull the driver and the bungie pops onto the ear. rock to the other side repeat. done you can almost do it one handed and no damage to the bungies.

Hope this helps.



117631176411766

smcnutt
04-04-2017, 03:26 PM
Wag Aero was back-ordered on the 1080HD cords so I bought those from AS and they should arrive later this week. Curious that based on the date coding in the document above, the 1280HD's that came from Wag Aero are from the 4th quarter of either 2010 or 2015 (black/black/yellow) but I'm assuming that's 2015. I'm curious what date code will be on the 1080HD's from AS will be.

Again, based on that document, they have a pretty indefinite shelf-life anyway but really just curious about the stock a these places. However, it does make one wonder why they bothered to make a date-code a part of this product if they have an indefinite shelf-life?

The 1080HD's from AS arrived and have 3 green stripes -3rd quarter of 2011 or 2016.

Jim Hann
05-10-2017, 08:05 PM
I have the instructions. Probably be after S&F before I can copy.

Hey Steve, see how quick I am at remembering this?

smcnutt
06-21-2017, 10:11 AM
Those smarter than I (that's most) may have already figured this out but looking at the drawing CD (drawing 13113) I just noticed that the hardware for the top vs. bottom hydrosorb mount are different. The top calls out an AN5-16 bolt, AN310-5 nut and a cotter pin only -no washers.

The bottom calls an AN5-15 bolt, AN310-5 nut, AN960-516 washer and a cotter pin.

Steve Pierce
06-22-2017, 06:38 AM
Those smarter than I (that's most) may have already figured this out but looking at the drawing CD (drawing 13113) I just noticed that the hardware for the top vs. bottom hydrosorb mount are different. The top calls out an AN5-16 bolt, AN310-5 nut and a cotter pin only -no washers.

The bottom calls an AN5-15 bolt, AN310-5 nut, AN960-516 washer and a cotter pin.
I didn't remember that but hopefully I wrote the hardware in my parts manual. Everytime I look up a drawing I note the hardware from the drawing in my parts manual, pays off later.

Jim Hann
06-23-2017, 07:55 AM
Those smarter than I (that's most) may have already figured this out but looking at the drawing CD (drawing 13113) I just noticed that the hardware for the top vs. bottom hydrosorb mount are different. The top calls out an AN5-16 bolt, AN310-5 nut and a cotter pin only -no washers.

The bottom calls an AN5-15 bolt, AN310-5 nut, AN960-516 washer and a cotter pin.

It's been a little over two years but I seem to remember them being being different. The picture I have of what I believe is there gear hardware (the two hinge bolts and the two hydrosorb bolts is inconclusive.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/7814b444b8547861b3137009ec80492a.jpg

smcnutt
06-23-2017, 09:01 AM
We actually started doing the bungees last night (finally) and we found that what was in there was the AN5-15 in the bottom but AN5-17 in the top with two washers on the head side and one on the nut side. The AN5-15 is too short to fit in the upper position. Unfortunately we didn't have replacement AN5-16 bolts (thought we did) so we couldn't see how that would fit but we should be able to find them locally today and know for sure. Definitely want to use new bolts.

Thinking we should maybe replace the gear bolts while we have the plane up in the air and off of the gear.

Jim Hann
06-23-2017, 02:56 PM
Thinking we should maybe replace the gear bolts while we have the plane up in the air and off of the gear.

I did, the AN6 bolts didn't look too bad but they were undrilled and my IA wanted drilled. Yeah, I know Piper used undrilled back in the day. It can be a pain doing it by yourself, my one gear leg was easy, the other one, not so much.

smcnutt
06-23-2017, 04:42 PM
I did, the AN6 bolts didn't look too bad but they were undrilled and my IA wanted drilled. Yeah, I know Piper used undrilled back in the day. It can be a pain doing it by yourself, my one gear leg was easy, the other one, not so much.
I was thinking there was a SB about these landing gear bolts but maybe I'm thinking of the fork bolts instead.

Shermanj1
10-10-2017, 07:38 PM
What bungees Would put in a 20/22 160

Steve Pierce
10-11-2017, 05:43 AM
As stiff as they have been in recent years I would probably install 1080s.

Rick-CAS
10-11-2017, 03:34 PM
I put 1080's on a Colt last year and they still will jar your teeth out while taxiing. The bungee quality has gone to the far extremes in the past few years.

Shermanj1
10-11-2017, 05:00 PM
I put 1080's on a Colt last year and they still will jar your teeth out while taxiing. The bungee quality has gone to the far extremes in the past few years.
So go with the 1080 and not 1080hd? Just dont want them to sag. Right now the gear sag is prett bad, however the bungees are probably 30+ years old at least. 12540

Rick-CAS
10-11-2017, 05:20 PM
I would go with straight 1080's.

Shermanj1
10-11-2017, 05:47 PM
1080 it is !!! Next question anyone have a bungee buddy i could rent ?:icon_biggrin:

andya
10-11-2017, 09:40 PM
I put 1080's on a Colt last year and they still will jar your teeth out while taxiing. The bungee quality has gone to the far extremes in the past few years.

Agree with that statement, mine were holding gear up tight afer 4-5 years when I dropped it at Steve's almost 2 years ago
Had them put 1080HD on as per spec

Steve Pierce
10-12-2017, 05:59 AM
Agree with that statement, mine were holding gear up tight afer 4-5 years when I dropped it at Steve's almost 2 years ago
Had them put 1080HD on as per spec

Andy, I don't see a requirement for the HD, just the 1080 unless I am missing something. Can you explain?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/shock_rings.php?clickkey=3010852

piperrocks2013
10-12-2017, 08:01 AM
Andy, I don't see a requirement for the HD, just the 1080 unless I am missing something. Can you explain?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/shock_rings.php?clickkey=3010852

Good Morning Steve and guys. I have 51 Pacer and have not looked closely at the bungee's yet. But correct me if Im wrong including to the above document the 51 used a 1380HD?? It also appears used slightly different shock strut assembly??

Jared

andya
10-12-2017, 10:59 AM
Steve, I though I saw the 1080hd listed somewhere for the pa-22 but cant think where i had read that. might not have been been an official doc. seems like in the early days in the forum, 1080hd was the std for the 22 series. will look at my notes when i get home.

this is probably what i had read, but might not be officially correct.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/SHOCK%20CORD%20RING%20APPLICATION%20CHART.pdf

Steve Pierce
10-12-2017, 11:02 AM
Yes and we were using a 1280 because they were sagging in a year. Seems to have gone the other way now.

eskflyer
10-12-2017, 07:19 PM
PA-12 1080HD 3/4” x 8” 950 4 or 6
PA-12 1280HD 3/4” x 8” 950 4 or 6
PA-14 1280HD 3/4” x 8” 950 4
PA-16 1080HD 5/8” x 8” 900 4
PA-18 w/Optional Hydrosorb Unit (SN up to 18-3013) 1080HD 5/8” x 8” 900 4
PA-18 w/Standard Hydrosorb Unit (SN 18-3014 and up) 1080HD 5/8” x 8” 900 4
PA-18A w/Optional Hydrosorb Unit (SN up to 8-2186) 1080HD 5/8” x 8” 900 4
PA-20 (1952 Model and up) 1080HD 5/8” x 8” 900 4
PA-22 1080HD 5/8” x 8” 900 4
PA-22-108 1080 5/8” x 8” 750 4
PA-25 1080HD 5/8” x 8” 900 4
PA-25 1080HD 5/8” x 8” 900 4
PA-20 1380 13/16” x 8” 1160 2

This list is from AERO IN STOCK

smcnutt
10-13-2017, 07:09 AM
We have a PA-22/20-135 and we just installed new 1080HD&1280HD combo on ours. That's what we had previously and they were 4-5 years old and starting to sag. Not really noticed the new ones being overly stiff. Maybe my jarring landings are masking that. :cry:

Frank Green
10-13-2017, 07:51 AM
Remember early 20s narrow gear. Later 20s 22/20s wide gear. Some early 20s converted to wide gear (mine). 22s wide gear but a lot less load due to more weight on nose gear than a tailwheel but a little heavier empty weight. It's all a matter of load and leverage= ride quality and bounce. Different strokes for different folks.

cozzmo81
12-17-2017, 08:30 AM
Good Morning Steve and guys. I have 51 Pacer and have not looked closely at the bungee's yet. But correct me if Im wrong including to the above document the 51 used a 1380HD?? It also appears used slightly different shock strut assembly??

Jared

Jared,

Did you ever get an answer to your question? I have a 50 Pacer with Wide gear and need to replace my bungees. Based on the application chart from the manufacture of the bungees I need a single 1380 one each Hydrosorb unit. Is this sufficient based on others experiences or should I go with the 1380HD? Any opinions are appreciated

Vagabondblues
12-17-2017, 09:47 AM
I think the arm (length of the upper tube) on the wide gear is longer. The increased length puts the hydra sorb straight up and down in comparison to the roughly seventy degree angle on the hydra sorb on the narrow gear. Due to the changes in geometry I would think that you need to beef up the bungees to what is called for on the later models.

cozzmo81
12-17-2017, 09:15 PM
I think the arm (length of the upper tube) on the wide gear is longer. The increased length puts the hydra sorb straight up and down in comparison to the roughly seventy degree angle on the hydra sorb on the narrow gear. Due to the changes in geometry I would think that you need to beef up the bungees to what is called for on the later models.

I thought I read in another post that the top and bottom hydrasorb fittings were different (smaller)on the early pacers such that the early pacer fittings were not large enough to contain the two bungee setup. Do you know if this is correct? The only drawing I see in the drawing cd is for the PA-22 and I believe 53 and up pacer.
Thanks

Steve Pierce
12-17-2017, 09:42 PM
I thought I read in another post that the top and bottom hydrasorb fittings were different (smaller)on the early pacers such that the early pacer fittings were not large enough to contain the two bungee setup. Do you know if this is correct? The only drawing I see in the drawing cd is for the PA-22 and I believe 53 and up pacer.
Thanks

That was my understanding as well. Do you have the smaller hydrosorb fittings?

cozzmo81
12-17-2017, 09:52 PM
That was my understanding as well. Do you have the smaller hydrosorb fittings?
I’m not sure which I have at the moment. I have not removed the hydrosorb yet. I will try to get out to the airport this week and look. I know that it only has one bungee per unit now.

Steve Pierce
12-18-2017, 07:20 AM
From my recent experience of extremely stiff bungees I believe I would use the 1380 and not the HD. I see Spruce wants almost $50 more per cord for the HDs.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/shock_rings.php?clickkey=3010852

cozzmo81
12-18-2017, 07:59 AM
From my recent experience of extremely stiff bungees I believe I would use the 1380 and not the HD. I see Spruce wants almost $50 more per cord for the HDs.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/shock_rings.php?clickkey=3010852

I will give that a try and see how it works out. Right now there is a considerable amount of sag. The bungee's were replaced in 2005 so its definitely time to change them.

Frank Green
12-18-2017, 09:46 AM
The only large ear hydros I've seen are on super cubs. I've done single 1380hd, double 1080hd combo 1380 and a 1080 (not recommended by me) all on small ear.

cozzmo81
12-18-2017, 11:47 AM
Frank,

Having used those different combinations what one worked the best? I know the answer probably is subjective to the mission or aircraft. Based on the information at hand Piper called for a 1380 bungee on each gear for a 1950 Pacer which provides 1160 LBS. The 1380HD provides 1460 LBS per side and the dual 1080 setup as called for by Piper on the 52 and up PA-20 and PA-22 provides 1800lbs per side. What changed that made them make the switch to the higher load rating on the bungee's? Did the weight of the airplane change substantially or was it the wider gear that caused the need for increased bungee size? I know the PA-22 has a higher gross from the factory than the early PA-20 so I am sure that had something to do with it as well. I have a 50 Pacer with wide gear and O320 STC which includes gross weight increase to 1950lbs. I am trying to get all the information I can so I don't have to waste time and money on bungees that don't perform as they should. I appreciate every ones feedback.

Frank Green
12-18-2017, 12:55 PM
Wide gear more leverage. If it was mine (my opinion) and I have a 50 20 on wide gear I'm rebuilding and it will get double 1080 HD. I have a 50 20 on narrow and for the last 38 years I've been working on it, it was on on 1380 HD. At least until we cartwheeled it. One thing that makes a difference is how they are put on. If you only stretch one side they will act tighter for a while if not forever till maybe they even out which might make you think you have the right cords at first but then they loosen up fast. Also if they twist while you are putting them on it can make them act stiffer. My 2 cents. A subject full of opinion.

cozzmo81
12-18-2017, 02:45 PM
Wide gear more leverage. If it was mine (my opinion) and I have a 50 20 on wide gear I'm rebuilding and it will get double 1080 HD. I have a 50 20 on narrow and for the last 38 years I've been working on it, it was on on 1380 HD. At least until we cartwheeled it. One thing that makes a difference is how they are put on. If you only stretch one side they will act tighter for a while if not forever till maybe they even out which might make you think you have the right cords at first but then they loosen up fast. Also if they twist while you are putting them on it can make them act stiffer. My 2 cents. A subject full of opinion.

Frank,
I appreciate the information you and others have provided. I have seen your posts on installing the bungees and your installation tool looks pretty slick.
Thanks

Steve Pierce
12-19-2017, 07:17 AM
I haven't looked at the parts manual but are the hydrosorb fittings the same part number? I assumed they were different. If they are the same I too would use the pair of 1080s per side.

cozzmo81
12-19-2017, 08:59 AM
Steve,
I have not had a chance to look at my parts manual yet, but I will check it out this week. I was hoping to find the information on the Drawing CD but it looks like only the later hydrosorb drawing is on the CD. For what its worth Univair only shows the one part listed as effective for the PA-20 and PA-22 without SN exclusions.

Steve Pierce
12-19-2017, 01:57 PM
I looked up the parts of the hydrosorb while I ate lunch. The only difference is the shock cords used. I would use the 2 1080s like the 52 and later airplanes had unless I had a stock 1950-51 Pacer.

cozzmo81
12-19-2017, 02:15 PM
I looked up the parts of the hydrosorb while I ate lunch. The only difference is the shock cords used. I would use the 2 1080s like the 52 and later airplanes had unless I had a stock 1950-51 Pacer.

Steve thanks for taking the time to look that up its greatly appreciated.

Pacerfgoe
12-25-2017, 09:01 PM
Just to add a little more info, a couple of years ago I put two 1080HD's on each side of my narrow gear 52 Pacer, and they are extremely stiff.....I feel most every bump in the runways, and run my tires fairly soft (12lbs) to compensate. I hope someday the bungees will soften.
I agree with Steve that the 1080's would most likely be better.

cozzmo81
03-03-2018, 09:43 AM
I removed my hydrasorbs frome my pacer yesterday in preparation to change the bungees. I noticed once removed that they don’t have the bottom cup rather the bungee support is welded directly to the unit itself. I was under the impression that all the hydrasorbs were the same. Has anyone else seen ones like this? The part number on the shock is 487557. The PA-22 had 487558 from what I’ve been able to find so far.
13107


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Vagabondblues
03-03-2018, 05:14 PM
Yep. Those are the correct hydrasorbs for the narrow gear.

cozzmo81
03-04-2018, 08:12 AM
Thanks Vagabondblues.

If there is anyone in the central Indiana area that needs a tool to change their bungees I'd be happy to either help you change them or loan you my tool I made. Thanks to Lownslow (Lou) on this site for posting pictures previously in this thread of the awesome bungee tool. I made one similar to his and it works great.
131101311113112

Steve Pierce
03-04-2018, 09:45 AM
I removed my hydrasorbs frome my pacer yesterday in preparation to change the bungees. I noticed once removed that they don’t have the bottom cup rather the bungee support is welded directly to the unit itself. I was under the impression that all the hydrasorbs were the same. Has anyone else seen ones like this? The part number on the shock is 487557. The PA-22 had 487558 from what I’ve been able to find so far.
13107


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I had not seen that one before. I'll have to look at the parts manual, the 53 PA20 I did a lot of work on had the ears on a seperate piece like I have seen on Tri-Pacers and 22/20s.

cozzmo81
03-04-2018, 10:34 AM
I could not find anything on the drawing CD for them. The CD only has the drawing for the PA-22. They look to be made this way by Monroe. The ears would have to have been welded onto the body before final assembly I would think.

Vagabondblues
03-04-2018, 04:26 PM
I could not find anything on the drawing CD for them. The CD only has the drawing for the PA-22. They look to be made this way by Monroe. The ears would have to have been welded onto the body before final assembly I would think.

Take a look a drawing 12637 on the drawing CD. It was updated in 1954, added item "P" on the drawing which replaced the 12638-00 (hydrasorb with welded ears) with the current hydrasorb 13148, which has the two fittings, one which fits overs the strut. I have an unmolested 1950 PA-20 with 900 hours, narrow gear and the hydrasorbs have the welded lugs like yours. I also have an original 1950 PA20 parts catalog, which by the way was produced without illustrations. Piper said that they would help you identify parts with a phone call. The original parts catalog only list the 12638-00 as the correct hydrasorb for a 50 pacer. Also, It does not make a separate listing the fittings which are required on the current 13148 hydrasorb on drawing 12637, like the current (1954 rev.)parts catalog does. I think there is an error in the current parts catalog adding the fittings to the obsolete 12638-00.

cozzmo81
03-04-2018, 04:56 PM
Take a look a drawing 12637 on the drawing CD. It was updated in 1954, added item "P" on the drawing which replaced the 12638-00 (hydrasorb with welded ears) with the current hydrasorb 13148, which has the two fittings, one which fits overs the strut. I have an unmolested 1950 PA-20 with 900 hours, narrow gear and the hydrasorbs have the welded lugs like yours. I also have an original 1950 PA20 parts catalog, which by the way was produced without illustrations. Piper said that they would help you identify parts with a phone call. The original parts catalog only list the 12638-00 as the correct hydrasorb for a 50 pacer. Also, It does not make a separate listing the fittings which are required on the current 13148 hydrasorb on drawing 12637, like the current (1954 rev.)parts catalog does. I think there is an error in the current parts catalog adding the fittings to the obsolete 12638-00.

Thank you for that information.

Steve Pierce
03-04-2018, 05:10 PM
Sounds like the PA16 parts catalog. Interesting.

fabricman
03-05-2018, 06:36 PM
Does anyone have experience building a bungee tool utilizing simple leverage, depicted in this video, to install bungees as potent as the 1080HD's? I am considering building one. I have 270 lbs here that is sitting around not doing much.

Lou S.

Lou - I built one years ago when I first bought my Pacer and have used it for years.....it worked exactly like the video. I changed several bungees for different guys over the years, and am supposed to change out the bungees on Younkin's Pacer tomorrow. But I can't find my bungee tool! Haven't used it in about 6 years, or more, according to Moyle who bought my old Pacer and has now rebuilt it, as he said the bungees were about 6 years old on the Pacer when he got it. Thought I knew exactly where it was, but nope.....not there. I can't remember loaning it to someone, but may have. Any way, guess I will be building a new tool!

Fabricman

pa20
03-06-2018, 12:41 PM
Take a look a drawing 12637 on the drawing CD. It was updated in 1954, added item "P" on the drawing which replaced the 12638-00 (hydrasorb with welded ears) with the current hydrasorb 13148, which has the two fittings, one which fits overs the strut. I have an unmolested 1950 PA-20 with 900 hours, narrow gear and the hydrasorbs have the welded lugs like yours. I also have an original 1950 PA20 parts catalog, which by the way was produced without illustrations. Piper said that they would help you identify parts with a phone call. The original parts catalog only list the 12638-00 as the correct hydrasorb for a 50 pacer. Also, It does not make a separate listing the fittings which are required on the current 13148 hydrasorb on drawing 12637, like the current (1954 rev.)parts catalog does. I think there is an error in the current parts catalog adding the fittings to the obsolete 12638-00.
I had the same issue when I replaced my hydrosorbs a few years ago. I ordered what was listed for a PA-20, and what I received were the ones that needed the end fittings. I called Univair, and was told that the ones I received were the replacement for the older style. Luckily, my local salvage place had a few busted up PA-22's that I was able to secure the parts as they are breathtakingly expensive from Univair!
Make sure you check the overall length of the new vs original before installation. Also...Don't forget to replace the bumper pads while you have everything disassembled!

Steve Pierce
06-05-2018, 09:27 PM
Changed bungee cords on a Pacer today. Used a tow strap and the chain hoist in the ceiling of my hanger to lift it up one side at a time.
13568

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Steve Pierce
06-05-2018, 09:30 PM
Removed the bolt holding the hydrosorbs inside the fuselage. Then I put a block of wood under the tire to expose the bolt holding the hydrosorb to the landing gear.
13569

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Steve Pierce
06-05-2018, 09:32 PM
I get nervous with things just hanging so I installed a section of chain just in case the airplane were to fall.
1357013571

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Steve Pierce
06-05-2018, 09:35 PM
Then the fun part of loading the hydrosorb into the Bungee Buddy.
135721357313574

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Steve Pierce
06-05-2018, 09:37 PM
Stretched, pushed over to one side by a thumb screw and then popped onto the hydrosorb by loosening a bolt on the side of the tool. 135751357613577

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Steve Pierce
06-05-2018, 09:45 PM
Then the loaded hydrosorb is installed from the cockpit and bolt installed in the gear leg. Then nockbthe block out from under the tire while making sure the top of the hydrosorb is aligned to the fitting in the fuselage carry-thru structure.
13579
I have a collection of bullets made by cutting the head off a bolt and turning it to a point on my disc sander while chucked up in my cordless drill. Works good for lining up the hole in the hydrosorb with the fuselage fitting, drive it through with the bolt right behind it. I quick wack with a plastic hammer usually drives the bolt in and the bullet out.
13578

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Jeff J
06-06-2018, 07:46 AM
I have used a floor jack with a come-along to remove and reinstall hydrasorbs. The floor jack went under the tire as a skate on the side I was working to allow it to move in and out. I tied the gear together and controlled the movement with the come-along. Worked very well for me when hoisting the aircraft wasn’t a feasible option.

Joeman434
09-22-2018, 06:25 AM
I'm a little late to the party here...but a few questions. Please excuse my ignorance, but I know very little about bungee replacement. I recently acquired a Tri-Pacer and a Wag Aero Sportsman 2+2 out of an estate sale. Both were sitting several years and not in flying condition. Both are now airworthy and the Pacer stands tall, but the 2+2 sags on the right side. Looking at the bungees, I see different colored strings from side to side. I'm guessing the best would be to replace both sides. The question s are....where is the best place to buy bungees, and what is everybody using to change them? I see the tool available, plus youtube video's of home made contraptions...

Steve Pierce
09-22-2018, 07:35 AM
Aircraft Spruce and Univair have fresh bungees so it depends on if am ordering other parts as to where I get them. I have bought a Stewarts Bungee Buddy after I broke and rebuilt my Bungee Master several times. I have used the engine hoist but find the Bungee Buddy easier and safer for me.

Glen Geller
09-24-2018, 07:52 PM
Hi Joe,
The color codes on bungees are date codes.
Here is a publication from Univair with details about that:
http://www.univair.com/content/Shock-Cords.pdf
So different colors probably means you have some (example) Nov 2014 and Jan 2015 rings, or something like that.
The document also explains how the size code works, like 1080.
The first two digits are CORD diameter in 16th inch increments (10/16" = 5/8" cord diameter)
The second two digits are RING diameter in 8th inch increments (80/8 = 10" ring diameter)
Rings that are in original packaging and stored in normal room temp (Univair/Spruce warehouse for example) are probably "fresh" for at least 6 months. Just order your rings within about a month of when you plan to install them.

Here's video of Steve replacing rings:
https://youtu.be/Pjpyr59KEhM

Here's a different type, we built one using a Toyota jack; I have plans at home on my PC, I'll try to remember to share the drawings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgL5JGSy748

I'm in a boring work meeting so that's why I'm writing this long message with stuff you have probably already read elsewhere in this famous thread.

GG

Joeman434
09-26-2018, 01:30 AM
Thanks for the response.....watched a Youtube video on changing them....looks simple enough.

Joeman434
09-26-2018, 02:14 AM
Glen, after watching the video's, I think I can build one with a hydraulic cylinder and use my mule to power it......off to the drawing board....

Glen Geller
09-27-2018, 12:04 AM
Sorry Joe, I've been working weird hours this week, I'll try to remember to upload the sketch/plans tomorrow.
We call it the Bungee Boss.

GG

redbarron55
09-28-2018, 08:35 PM
I think I am confused. Piper drawings had a drawing of a tool to install bungee cords that hooked into end of the bungee and you hooked the cord over the horn, swung the device around the end of the hydrosorb unit and brought that end up the the hook on the other side.
You did need a nice well supported vice as I remember. Wag Aero sold that one for about $18.00 as I remember when I bought mine.
I have tried other jury rigged methods and I thought they were as dangerous as ....

smcnutt
09-29-2018, 10:03 AM
Something like this tool? https://youtu.be/tWZpmu30h94


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redbarron55
09-29-2018, 10:27 AM
Something like this tool? https://youtu.be/tWZpmu30h94


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Yes exactly like that.
I think that the Pacer drawings show the tool blue print on them if I remember correctly.
I personally think this is safer than some hydraulic systems.
The tool needs to be solidly clamped in a heavily secured vice.
I tried to look up the tool and have only seen one for the cub, but the principle is the same.
The tool for the Cub is a LOT more expensive than I remembered at about $260.00.

smcnutt
10-01-2018, 09:09 AM
I've used the Bungee Buddy and it's a breeze to do.

Glen Geller
10-03-2018, 12:06 AM
Hi Joe, I finally remembered to boot up the old PC and find those files for the Bungee Boss.
The hardest part (assuming welding is a skill you already possess) is finding a suitable mechanical jack like that shown in the photos and drawing.
We used one from an old Toyota pickup.
Ours works great and really reduces the risk up injury; we have five Tri-Pacers and two Pacers in our group so this thing gets dusted off every year!
Here's a video of someone using one, using a good cordless drill makes it really easy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgL5JGSy748
I would suggest you clamp it in a vise on a really solid table, not your wife's card table!
I like how the owner cleaned up and painted the hydrosorb before installing the rings.
Be sure to arrange the rings on the tool so the threads that wrap the joint are in the middle of a straight area, not over the ears.

Best of luck,
Glen in Oregon

cozzmo81
10-03-2018, 08:45 PM
I made one similar but couldn’t find a truck jack. I had a trailer tongue jack laying around so I used that instead.1422414226


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Glen Geller
10-05-2018, 01:08 PM
I made one similar but couldn’t find a truck jack. I had a trailer tongue jack laying around so I used that instead.1422414226


Sent from my iPhone using ShortWingPipers.Org mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=95463)That's pretty clever, and if you don't have one lying around, those jacks are cheap at Harbor Freight.
A good powerful cordless drill and you're off to the races.
GG

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cozzmo81
10-06-2018, 07:36 AM
That's pretty clever, and if you don't have one lying around, those jacks are cheap at Harbor Freight.
A good powerful cordless drill and you're off to the races.
GG

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Glen, that’s exactly right. I chucked my 18V Milwaukee cordless drill on the end and it was a pitiful cake. Took about 10 minutes to do both hydrosorbs.


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redbarron55
10-06-2018, 07:47 AM
Stretching the cord scares me.
The Piper bungee installed stretches the cord as it is wrapped around the end of the hydrosorb unit.
Either way you have to have a good solid vise to clamp the system.
The CD drawings show a print for the jig to install the cords.
No more welding than the system with a jack, but a still some fabrication.
Either way there is still the issue of moving the cord from the installer to the horns on the Hydrosorb.

Glen Geller
10-07-2018, 12:04 PM
Stretching the cord scares me.
The Piper bungee installed stretches the cord as it is wrapped around the end of the hydrosorb unit.
Either way you have to have a good solid vise to clamp the system.
The CD drawings show a print for the jig to install the cords.
No more welding than the system with a jack, but a still some fabrication.
Either way there is still the issue of moving the cord from the installer to the horns on the Hydrosorb.The Bungee Buddy (Stewart type) does not require much muscle to stretch the rings, but you must slightly force the rings from the tool onto the ears, usually inducing a twist, and with a definite snap as the pop from tool to hydrosorb.
The Bungee Boss (with jack and swingover lever) require a bit of muscle and a very secure vice/bench/mount, but it's really quite easy and I think safer for fingers. Also it does not twist the rings and the transition from tool to hydrosorb ears is very predictable.
Having replaced shock rings at least a dozen times on various local Tri-Pacers in 15 years, the work done half with Buddy, half with Boss, I found the Boss is faster, easier, and safer for me.
We made ours mostly from scrap materials (our in-house welding guy, so that's forturante!) and a used jack found in a garage. Maybe $100 material if you bought from DIY & Harbor Freight.


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Subsonic
10-19-2018, 08:58 PM
Glen, I need your advice. I bought a brand new bungee buddy and new chords and now I’m thinking about how to install them. I have a very nice engine hoist that I can use to lift the front of my plane, at the engine mount at the firewall. I need more specific information about how to lift at the motor mount at the firewall. Does the strap just go under the top mount? Or does it go under the bottom mount? Do you have any pictures? Thanks.
-Subsonic

Steve Pierce
10-20-2018, 06:49 AM
I have strapped under the top engine mount tubes at the firewall without issue.

rideandfly
10-22-2018, 08:24 AM
Followed Steve's recommendation to lift one wheel about 1/8" off of the floor at a time, worked OK on the Vag. Purchased the strap at Northern tool.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Vagabond/i-jMdRDRs/0/732515a1/M/IMG_1925-M.jpg (https://rideandfly.smugmug.com/Vagabond/i-jMdRDRs/A)

Agent Speights
11-07-2018, 09:51 PM
Was supposed to help the mechanic change our bungy's this morning but was delayed rounding up our 4 sheep for the shearer. Best employees I have.

We finally found a bungy tool at another airfield and another owner went and got this yesterday for us. By the time I got to the mechanic's workshop this morning one set had been done and the other hydro sorb was in 2 pieces on his bench. It fell apart when he cut the old bungy cords. The question is, before we give Univair another involuntary donation of nearly $US500 (including freight) or we get our mits on a second hand one - can these be repaired?

The mechanic who gave us the Bungy tool has an old spare Hydro-sorb that I can pick up tomorrow for the mechanic to check before we use it. Can’t see any way of saving the bungy’s if we put them on and find it is crap later. Have a few other calls out too in NZ.

The other option, as it might just be best to buy new, is we have a few long haul pilots in the group and maybe one of them will be in the States next week and we save a fair bit on the freight. Aircraft is grounded till we sort.

Bernard.

Steve Pierce
11-08-2018, 07:25 AM
I have never seen the shaft unscrew before. I think I would quiz Univair on that failure.

Agent Speights
11-08-2018, 01:31 PM
Will do and will let you know their answer. Nearly rang them yesterday. Got a couple of second hand ones here in NZ to look at, so not all bad.

Bernard.

Agent Speights
11-08-2018, 10:01 PM
Univair replied very quickly.

"I am sorry to hear that your hydrasorb fell apart while replacing your bungys. I am uncertain as to what caused your hydrasorb to fall apart. Univair FAA/PMA approved hydrasorbs are consumable parts and have to be replaced if they are worn out. Unfortunately, Univair has nothing published for refurbishing our FAA/PMA approved hydrasorbs."

First second hand one was off a very old cub. Hopefully the second one will pan out.

Bernard.

cozzmo81
11-09-2018, 05:36 PM
I would argue the fact, that while the hydrosorb may be a wearable part the issue you have is an outright failure. If I were univair I would be interested in what actually caused the failure. The piston shouldn't just unscrew from the rod like that. Maybe a phone call and further explanation is in order.

Steve Pierce
11-09-2018, 10:00 PM
I agree, I know one of their engineers and am going to bring this up with him.

Agent Speights
11-11-2018, 03:34 AM
Thanks. I'll follow up too with some more pictures and try and get an more reasoned response. Will try another email before using the phone. Still waiting to see which way we go. Second hand or new.

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Eagleavn
03-29-2019, 06:55 AM
Steve I know you have talked about bungees a million times, but i have just one question. How do i get to "borrow" the tool from the SWP club. I have done bungees before but its been so long and, two hangers, all of my info has "departed the pattern" so to speak. Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Lloyd P.
Eagle Aviation of Va.

Steve Pierce
03-29-2019, 10:00 AM
Contact the Club https://www.shortwingpiperclub.org/ I have been known to loan my tool out to donating members. Infact it is on it's way to Memphis.

eskflyer
03-29-2019, 10:09 AM
Your a good man Steve. Thanks for all you do for everyone here.

JP

BPQ
05-17-2019, 10:19 AM
I'm a new member, just bought a '56 Tri Pacer. It needs new bungees any chance your tool is still available. my email is robertbutterfieldjr@gmail.com

Thanks.

cozzmo81
05-17-2019, 10:45 AM
I'm a new member, just bought a '56 Tri Pacer. It needs new bungees any chance your tool is still available. my email is robertbutterfieldjr@gmail.com

Thanks.

BPQ
where in Indiana are you located? I’m in the indianapolis area. I have a bungee tool you can use if you are in the area.

BPQ
05-17-2019, 10:51 AM
I live in Shelbyville and travel to Indy all the time. I'd be more than glad to pick it up.
Thanks, Bob Butterfield

rgoering
06-15-2019, 09:36 AM
I have a 1950 PA-20, and the bungees are sagging, again. I have O-320 engine with gross wt increase to 1950, that maybe explains part of the sagging. The Univair on-line catalog requires ser numbers 1 - 811 use a single 1380 chord (1160 lbs.) on each side, which is what I have been using. Univair says that "52 and later use 2 1080HD (800 lbs.) on each side. Will that fit on my original hydrasorb, or is a different hydrasorb required? The channel on the upper side appears to have no more room for another chord, even though the 1080 is slightly smaller diameter than the 1380.

Steve Pierce
06-15-2019, 03:20 PM
I have a 1950 PA-20, and the bungees are sagging, again. I have O-320 engine with gross wt increase to 1950, that maybe explains part of the sagging. The Univair on-line catalog requires ser numbers 1 - 811 use a single 1380 chord (1160 lbs.) on each side, which is what I have been using. Univair says that "52 and later use 2 1080HD (800 lbs.) on each side. Will that fit on my original hydrasorb, or is a different hydrasorb required? The channel on the upper side appears to have no more room for another chord, even though the 1080 is slightly smaller diameter than the 1380.
Did you look at page 12 of this thread where Vagabond Blues talks about the earlier fittings? there are also some pictures posted of them. Looks like the thing to do would be to swap with later model fittings and the set of cords. I probably have a set of fittings.

cozzmo81
06-15-2019, 05:40 PM
I have a 1950 PA-20, and the bungees are sagging, again. I have O-320 engine with gross wt increase to 1950, that maybe explains part of the sagging. The Univair on-line catalog requires ser numbers 1 - 811 use a single 1380 chord (1160 lbs.) on each side, which is what I have been using. Univair says that "52 and later use 2 1080HD (800 lbs.) on each side. Will that fit on my original hydrasorb, or is a different hydrasorb required? The channel on the upper side appears to have no more room for another chord, even though the 1080 is slightly smaller diameter than the 1380.

I have a ‘50 pacer with an O-320 also. My hydrosorbs have the lower cord ears welded to the body of the shock unlike the later ones with the cup style fitting that slides over the shock. I used two cords on each hydrosorb. I was initially concerned about the area that contains the cord but it has been working fine. I’ll have to check my records to see which cords I used. Here are some pictures 152601526115262


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BPQ
06-16-2019, 08:12 AM
Okay Great. We have the left side done and it looks great. Right side will be Monday.

Thanks

Justin Christensen
12-27-2019, 12:25 PM
Anybody in Utah have a bungee buddy tool I could borrow? My outside bungee is rubbing near the flap handle and has started to cut in to it. My bungees are only 2 years old, so I think I just need to replace the outside one.
Anybody else have issues with their bungees getting cut from rubbing on the airplane?


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Glen Geller
12-30-2019, 04:39 PM
There's information elsewhere on this thread about which shock cords fit which Shortwing/configuration, but here's food for thought:
Choose the smallest cross-section (X/S below) that has the load capacity (Test Lbs) for your plane (I'm assuming a tri-Pacer 150 because that's the vast majority of Shortwings.)
Two 5/8" X/S take up less room than two 3/4", maybe that will provide the clearance you need to prevent chafing.
Descrip X/S x Dia Test Lbs
1080HD 5/8" x 8" 900#
1280 3/4" x 8" 750#
1280HD 3/4" x 8" 950#

I put 1080HD on my Tri-Pacer 150, they are plenty strong and they just clear the surrounding hardware.
And you should probably replace both at once, so they age at the same time.

Stephen
12-30-2019, 07:18 PM
There's information elsewhere on this thread about which shock cords fit which Shortwing/configuration, but here's food for thought:
Choose the smallest cross-section (X/S below) that has the load capacity (Test Lbs) for your plane (I'm assuming a tri-Pacer 150 because that's the vast majority of Shortwings.)
Two 5/8" X/S take up less room than two 3/4", maybe that will provide the clearance you need to prevent chafing.
Descrip X/S x Dia Test Lbs
1080HD 5/8" x 8" 900#
1280 3/4" x 8" 750#
1280HD 3/4" x 8" 950#

I put 1080HD on my Tri-Pacer 150, they are plenty strong and they just clear the surrounding hardware.
And you should probably replace both at once, so they age at the same time.

Excellent information, thanks Glen

andya
12-31-2019, 08:31 AM
that's the biggest reason I've stayed with the 1080hd

doc
12-31-2019, 08:47 AM
No "Bungee Buddy" but I built a tool this last year, used it on my 22, a conversion project 22/20(mine),a 20 out of Skypark & a SuperCub, looks similar to the one pictured in #165 with a few added mods & the Jack/Power portion was done differently...

ps Not sure why it says "Grain Valley, MO (E. Kansas City)" I tried to change it a while back, but it wouldn't go thru so I gave up as it doesn't really matter to me. I'm In Clinton, UT


Anybody in Utah have a bungee buddy tool I could borrow? My outside bungee is rubbing near the flap handle and has started to cut in to it. My bungees are only 2 years old, so I think I just need to replace the outside one.
Anybody else have issues with their bungees getting cut from rubbing on the airplane?


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Justin Christensen
01-19-2020, 06:07 PM
Just bought new bungees and they are dated Oct 2016. I've always heard bungees are good for 5 years. Is that from when you install them or from when they are dated? Their already 4 years old16290

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doc
01-19-2020, 07:15 PM
I've never seen any hard & fast rule that said you must replace at 5 years. In practical terms they are likely good until they start sagging which is really about the only time that most people change them, not saying that is right, but it's a fact. A LOT of things will come into when that is. How they were stored, how hard they are landed, i.e. how much & how often they are stretched, U/V will accelerate the rubber breaking down as will oil or fuel contamination, and I didn't notice if they were CW's or not, but landing hard & stretching them in extremely cold weather will also contribute to premature failure, hence why there are CW(Cold Weather) shock cords.

With all that said I'd call the vendor & ask them about it, but if they won't do anything about it I'd install & run them. I just ordered a set from Chief for my PA-12 yesterday, 2 sets of 1280HD's, they should be here this week, it'll be interesting to see how old they are.


Just bought new bungees and they are dated Oct 2016. I've always heard bungees are good for 5 years. Is that from when you install them or from when they are dated? Their already 4 years old16290

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Steve Pierce
01-20-2020, 07:39 AM
I would call the vendor but you might call Superior and see what they say. I have always gotten fresh stock from Univair and Spruce. Like posted above I think UV is the culprit on new bungees life.

Jim
01-20-2020, 02:55 PM
Over the years I was replacing way too many nearly new tires on my rarely used motor home due to cracking and the leaking or blowing out. I looked into solutions and found rubber breaks down much faster when it's not exercised regularly. No tire coating products will work as well as the flexing rubber needs to migrate the elasticisors blended into the rubber. Personally, I'm leary of old rubber products.


https://www.polymersolutions.com/blog/why-does-rubber-dry-rot/

From one of the many articals covering inactivity leading to rubber breakdown.


....."Rubber that gets regular use will retain its flexibility and molecular properties longer than neglected rubber. For example, although they’re exposed to UV rays daily, the tires on the car you drive regularly are actually more resistant to rot than tires hidden away in a dark garage. During the manufacturing process, the tire-maker adds a protective compound to the rubber formulation. Regular use causes the tire to flex and compress, pushing this protective substance to the surface. This doesn’t happen in an unused tire, so the rubber is more vulnerable to damage from ozone and oxidation"......

Steve Pierce
01-21-2020, 07:56 AM
Over the years I was replacing way too many nearly new tires on my rarely used motor home due to cracking and the leaking or blowing out. I looked into solutions and found rubber breaks down much faster when it's not exercised regularly. No tire coating products will work as well as the flexing rubber needs to migrate the elasticisors blended into the rubber. Personally, I'm leary of old rubber products.


https://www.polymersolutions.com/blog/why-does-rubber-dry-rot/

From one of the many articals covering inactivity leading to rubber breakdown.


....."Rubber that gets regular use will retain its flexibility and molecular properties longer than neglected rubber. For example, although they’re exposed to UV rays daily, the tires on the car you drive regularly are actually more resistant to rot than tires hidden away in a dark garage. During the manufacturing process, the tire-maker adds a protective compound to the rubber formulation. Regular use causes the tire to flex and compress, pushing this protective substance to the surface. This doesn’t happen in an unused tire, so the rubber is more vulnerable to damage from ozone and oxidation"......
Thanks for that Jim, I did not know that. Very interesting.

Stephen
01-21-2020, 07:17 PM
Just bought new bungees and they are dated Oct 2016. I've always heard bungees are good for 5 years. Is that from when you install them or from when they are dated? Their already 4 years old16290

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I don't change mine until they are sagging--lots. I like them when they have been worn and get a little softer.

Brian
01-22-2020, 09:11 PM
I make a habit of rocking the wings, after rolling the plane back into the hangar, by grabbing the front and rear struts up at the wing and lifting upwards enough to allow the two mains to slide together, thus relaxing the tension on the cords. I believe this has extended the life of my bungees quite a bit. My mains appear to have a slight toe in alignment rolling forward so the opposite action extends the mains and stretches the cords when rolling backwards into the hangar.

tnowak
01-23-2020, 02:29 AM
Same effect on my Vag, although I don't have bungees. The French replaced them with Messier oleo shocks back in the late 50s.
After pulling backwards into the hangar I rock my wings so the oleos "close".
TonyN

doc
01-25-2020, 10:34 AM
Justin,

Just an FYI, the 1280HD bungees(ok everyone, I know that's heavy, these are actually for a PA12) I had on order showed up yesterday, they are dated OCT 2018, so a year plus a little, old...


Just bought new bungees and they are dated Oct 2016. I've always heard bungees are good for 5 years. Is that from when you install them or from when they are dated? Their already 4 years old16290

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DaleLindstrom
01-25-2020, 03:31 PM
I don't remember where I found this. Good info.
16346

doc
01-25-2020, 04:28 PM
I was pretty much aware of that, wasn't complaining about the age just giving it as a reference given that Justin got some that were about four years old and was concerned about it a week or two ago...


I don't remember where I found this. Good info.
16346

Steve Pierce
01-26-2020, 08:40 AM
I don't remember where I found this. Good info.
16346
Good information, learned some new stuff. Thanks.

Stephen
01-26-2020, 11:56 AM
I was pretty much aware of that, wasn't complaining about the age just giving it as a reference given that Justin got some that were about four years old and was concerned about it a week or two ago...

Yes, good information. But, a 5 year automatic replacement recommendation seems a bit too soon. Of course, replacing if there is wear showing.

I saved a copy of this information for my files. Thanks

SMO22
01-26-2020, 03:38 PM
here's the actual mil-spec that is referenced in the Univair document... 11761

https://i.imgur.com/hoi89Bz.jpg

DaleLindstrom
01-26-2020, 05:40 PM
I think that mil-spec refers to the manufacture of the shock cords. Once manufactured, they can be stored under proper conditions for a considerable period of time.

dgapilot
01-26-2020, 06:32 PM
I think that mil-spec refers to the manufacture of the shock cords. Once manufactured, they can be stored under proper conditions for a considerable period of time.

The mil-spec gives the manufacturer 6 month from manufacture to delivery to the end user ( assuming a government contract). If the vendor is advertising shock chords that meet the mil-spec, or if your PO specified they had to meet mil-spec, then anything over 6 months doesn’t meet the contract.


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DaleLindstrom
01-26-2020, 06:40 PM
The mil-spec gives the manufacturer 6 month from manufacture to delivery to the end user ( assuming a government contract). If the vendor is advertising shock chords that meet the mil-spec, or if your PO specified they had to meet mil-spec, then anything over 6 months doesn’t meet the contract.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I read it that the rubber used in the manufacture of the cords could not be more than six months old.
I understood it to be a manufacturing mil-spec.

smcnutt
01-27-2020, 04:13 PM
The date issue is pretty confusing since later in the Univair document above it states:


There is no specified shelf life. SBC sent us correspondence in 2000 stating:

There is no prescribed limit on shelf life. As long as the Superior Rings
are kept in a controlled environment with low relative humidity and out
of UV light, they should keep for periods longer than we could
reasonably record data. An excessively dry condition of storage can
eventually cause dry-rot of the rubber core. Conversely, an excessively
damp condition can cause rot of the cover material. We have had rings
in the field in place on an aircraft last greater than 20 years. It is
therefore reasonable to assume that non-extreme conditions in a
warehouse should yield a shelf life more than sufficient to inventory our
product until resale.


Advisory Circular, AC 43.13-1B, 9-4 (a) states:

a. Old aircraft landing gear that employs a rubber shock (bungee) cord
for shock absorption must be inspected for age, fraying of the braided
sheath, narrowing, (necking) of the cord, and wear at points of contact
with the structure and stretch. If the age of the shock cord is near 5
years or more, it is advisable to replace it with a new cord. A cord that
shows other defects should be replaced, regardless of age.




Kind of makes you wonder why they require the date code woven into the ring if the Mfg date is unimportant -since it doesn't have a shelf life. Even then, at 5 years (installed) it is only then "Advisable" to replace, not required, and that would be based on install date and not the original Mfg date.

Replace when they wear out and/or sag. The color code is useless.

McDaver63
01-27-2020, 04:40 PM
Has anybody used or anyone know if you can use a bungee tool like this for installing bungees on a hydrasorb type shock for a PA-22? https://secure.steenaero.com/Store/site/product.cfm?id=6F19FF11-102E-BB20-19DF2A6172891E71

DaleLindstrom
01-27-2020, 05:13 PM
smcnutt, I agree. I've always based replacement 'on condition'. Color codes are pretty much useless.

Glen Geller
01-27-2020, 07:29 PM
Has anybody used or anyone know if you can use a bungee tool like this for installing bungees on a hydrasorb type shock for a PA-22? https://secure.steenaero.com/Store/site/product.cfm?id=6F19FF11-102E-BB20-19DF2A6172891E71

That does not look like it would work on a hydrosorb type bungee installation.
No idea what it IS for, maybe call the manufacturer or vendor and ask them what its for.

GG

Jim
01-27-2020, 07:41 PM
Hi Glen,

I think that tool would work on our planes. That "cup" on the end would go over and hold on to the ear while the stretching cord would hold the tool against the hydrosorb as it's being wrenched/stretched up to the ear.

Gilbert Pierce
01-27-2020, 07:52 PM
I also replace mine on condition when the gear doors don’t snug up to the bumpers; Twice in 24 years. The first set lasted about 18 years. The still looked good when I cut them off.

Stephen
01-27-2020, 11:57 PM
Hi Glen,

I think that tool would work on our planes. That "cup" on the end would go over and hold on to the ear while the stretching cord would hold the tool against the hydrosorb as it's being wrenched/stretched up to the ear.

Jim,

I want to stand way back and watch you give it a try. It looks deadly to me. Long ago I made a similar tool to install bungees on my J3, it was exciting.

Jim
01-28-2020, 06:47 AM
16377Hi Stephen,

I've changed them a few times myself using home made flesh traps. If that tool was here I'd give it a try. I'm down for annual now and plan to change cords with an interesting homebuilt tool I borrowed from a crop duster friend. I'll post a picture a little later, it's a design that's, ....interesting, hopefully not lethal.

Steve Pierce
01-28-2020, 07:39 AM
Has anybody used or anyone know if you can use a bungee tool like this for installing bungees on a hydrasorb type shock for a PA-22? https://secure.steenaero.com/Store/site/product.cfm?id=6F19FF11-102E-BB20-19DF2A6172891E71
I have a tool similar to that and it works on the Clipper very well. It will work on a hydrosorb but it pulls the bungee from one end arond the hydrosorb 180 degrees. The Bungee Buddy pulls both ends towards the ears thus more evenly, less likely to tear the outside weeve and in my opinion much easier to use.

I have had bungees stored in my cabinet for years and not seen any issues. I think the UV would be the big issue.

Jeff J
01-30-2020, 07:13 AM
I probably shouldn’t admit this but I am currently flying a set of bungees that have been installed at least 20 years. They still look good but I have been thinking about changing them on general principle anyway.

I think the Steen tool is for their aircraft but I don’t know what their bungee system looks like because I have never worked a Pitts or Skybolt.

Glen Geller
07-02-2020, 12:28 PM
Hi All,
Here is a measured sketch and some photos, plus a work instruction and video, for the Bungee Boss.
This tool uses a telescoping car jack that can usually be found at your local auto wrecking yard.
Thanks to Forrest "Pacerfgoe" Miller and Lou "Lownslow" who originally produced this cool gadget.
Here's Forrest demonstrating the installation of fresh rings on his Pacer shocks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgL5JGSy748&t=6s

Cheers,
GG

sierrasplitter
10-13-2020, 07:29 AM
My Plane goes into annual at the end of the month. I found a Good I/A who is going to do an owner assisted for me. I have ordered new bungee's because mine are 11 years old and Im going to be landing off airport and figured It would be good to do them now. I have the Bungee Buddy coming from SWPC.org.
I have read the PDF , but wanted to ask about securing the tail wheel end of a PA22/20.
I plan to do one side at a time with an engine hoist but not sure how the tail wheel will react. Should I put it on a sawhorse ?

Jim
10-13-2020, 07:45 AM
Hi,

If you're hoisting from one side of the engine mount at a time, you'll be good not doing anything with the tail wheel. The main gear you're not lifting will pretty much keep the plane planted.

Steve Pierce
10-13-2020, 08:16 AM
I chock the main you are not lifting and the tailwheel and have had no issues.

Old3pacer
10-14-2020, 07:09 AM
So just finished helping with bungee change - whew!!! That is quite a job!
It is the 2nd time I have had an opportunity to help with it. This time we used a different tool that I was not familiar with.
The SWPC loaner tool was not available as they are all loaned out at present.
Is it true that wag aero [or is it univair] will put the bungees on your hydrosorbs if you purchase cords from them?
Do they charge for that service?
What do your mechanics charge you for bungee change?
I looked at the stance of my plane and decided they are just fine!
AL

Steve Pierce
10-14-2020, 07:20 AM
Yes, Univair will install bungees on your hydrosorbs. I do not remember the charge.

sierrasplitter
11-12-2020, 02:19 PM
Waiting for the Bungee tool from SWPC. I ordered one 1080HD and one 1280 HD for each side. I do plan on off airport operations but is the 1280HD too much? Should I go with two 1080 HD's per side ? This will be my first time doing this and Im a bit concerned about the bungees fitting over each other and the bolt going back in

Steve Pierce
11-12-2020, 03:38 PM
I would go with the 1080s from my recent experience, if it starts to sag prematurely cut one off and install a 1280.

Jeff Pralle
11-12-2020, 06:42 PM
I run one 1080CW and one 128HDCW it is stiff at first however I am on 31" Bushwheels and operate at Gross Weight often. 1080s sag too quickly for my operations.

doc
11-12-2020, 07:26 PM
In the past year I've done 3 sets of short wing bungees, not as may as some I'm sure, but still a fair number. 2 were converted 22/20's the 3rd was an unconverted 22, all got the 1080HD/1280HD combo, and they seem to work well. Those are of course all wide gear, I would not use that combo on a narrow gear original 20, which if memory serves takes a single 1380 per Piper(though I could be mis-remembering) as the gear is much more straight up & down, so less leverage & more vertical shock



Waiting for the Bungee tool from SWPC. I ordered one 1080HD and one 1280 HD for each side. I do plan on off airport operations but is the 1280HD too much? Should I go with two 1080 HD's per side ? This will be my first time doing this and Im a bit concerned about the bungees fitting over each other and the bolt going back in

sierrasplitter
11-13-2020, 08:22 AM
I have all bases covered. Im going with one 1080HD and one 1280HD. Plan to get this done this weekend, first time so wish me luck !

Glen Geller
11-13-2020, 10:02 AM
I don't recall which is preferred to install first, the 5/8" dia (1080) or the 3/4" dia (1280), does anyone recall which size goes on the hydrosorbs first?
When I had 1080/1280 combos on my PA22, it was challenging to get the upper shock bolt in as the bolt head scrubbed the bungee.
I recall getting a slightly improved situation with installing one size first vs the other, but can't recall.

The mixed sizes was too stiff for my particular style of landings.
I switched to (2) 1080HDs on each shock and that seems to be a bit nicer to taxi, and last about five years before becoming noticeably saggy.

Good luck,
GG

Brian
11-13-2020, 11:43 AM
[QUOTE=Glen Geller;128412]I don't recall which is preferred to install first, the 5/8" dia (1080) or the 3/4" dia (1280), does anyone recall which size goes on the hydrosorbs first?

I starting using the 1080HD 1280HD combo following the TW conversion (now 30 years ago) which puts more weight on mains. Yes a little stiff for the first few months but I got a lot longer life span between bungee changes with the combo.

I started out putting the larger 1280HD on first and the 1080HD on top and did that for probably 6 ore 8 times. My thinking was the 1280HD is stiffer so being on the bottom stretches it less.

In recent times, maybe the last 4 times, I've been putting the larger 1280HD on top of the 1080HD since the smaller 5/8th bungee fits down in the hydrasorb ears better and provides more room for the 3/4 inch to flatten out.

Either way the top bolt is an interference fit. I normally put a thin aluminum scrap metal strip between the bungee and the bolt which allows the bolt head to be tapped with a hammer past the bungee with no damage to the outer cloth.

Steve Pierce
11-14-2020, 08:26 AM
There are some earlier posts in this thread on which to install first and why. I can't remember but I do know we were able to remove one because we did it the opposite and it was a scary process.

sierrasplitter
11-14-2020, 09:17 AM
I have the Stewart Hanger 21 Bungee Tool from the Club here at the house now . The instructions say to install the 1080
first

” This will leave more seating area for the larger 1280 in the small end of the hydrosorb “

They also enclose two testimonials from members who used the come along method on the gear . I have the engine hoist and stap for my install but I can see where the other way may give you more control for bolt alignment where putting it all back together

doc
11-14-2020, 10:12 AM
I've done them both ways, the 1080 then 1280 definitely works better for exactly the reason their instructions note. as to installing the hydrasorb/bungee combo in the aircraft, I've always found that that the engine hoist to lift worked best for me

I have the Stewart Hanger 21 Bungee Tool from the Club here at the house now . The instructions say to install the 1080
first

” This will leave more seating area for the larger 1280 in the small end of the hydrosorb “

They also enclose two testimonials from members who used the come along method on the gear . I have the engine hoist and stap for my install but I can see where the other way may give you more control for bolt alignment where putting it all back together

Brian
11-14-2020, 11:21 AM
I've done them both ways, the 1080 then 1280 definitely works better for exactly the reason their instructions note. as to installing the hydrasorb/bungee combo in the aircraft, I've always found that that the engine hoist to lift worked best for me

I also believe I greatly extended the life of the bungees if I lift rock the wings after rolling back into the hanger, to allow the tires to slide inward and fully unload the bungees. You really don't have to lift the tires off the ground just get some weight off in a rocking motion by grasping the struts up at the wings and the bungees will fully collapse the hydrosorbs. I might add I don't fly that much in recent years. If flying often I would save my back and leave them stretched.

sierrasplitter
11-14-2020, 02:12 PM
Well, taking them out was easy 1 hour 15 minutes start to finish on that part - solo No help
Bungees are about to be cut off but I think I have a problem
Over time someone has Grinded off some of the top tab on one side
Both shocks are that way
I think I may have to buy new top pieces

18104


18105

I flipped one over both ears should look
like the one on the left as you guys know

WHY WOULD SOMEONE DO THAT ?

Now it’s gonna cost me 180 a side to buy new top pieces

sierrasplitter
11-14-2020, 03:04 PM
I may have to bite the bullet and get new top pieces . These are Bent


18106

How do you remove them ? I see a small roll pin

sierrasplitter
11-14-2020, 03:06 PM
18108


And the bottom looks like someone again grinded off the side

Steve Pierce
11-15-2020, 08:19 AM
I don't think the side of the ears will effect anything, not sure why someone did that though. It does look like the top has a bowed to it. I probably have some tops if needed.

sierrasplitter
11-15-2020, 09:27 AM
Thanks Steve ! But once I saw had bad they were I started poking around the internet and found a whole set of top and bottoms , both sides for 110 bucks . Impatiently waiting for them to arrive .
These are both bowed . Hard to imagine . No cracks , just bent

Jim Hann
03-30-2021, 03:24 PM
I would go with the 1080s from my recent experience, if it starts to sag prematurely cut one off and install a 1280.
I'll be the double 1080HD guinea pig. Changing them next month during the Annual. Current ones (I'm not sure what sizes) are at least a decade old.

Jim

Jim Hann
04-11-2021, 09:21 PM
Okay folks, my IA hasn’t done much with hydrosorbs so I need a gouge. What do we need to check when I’m replacing the bungees? Looks like I need to clean them up and spray a little paint on them. Besides that, no leaks, deformities, etc. they take more effort to extend vs retract, is that correct? Also, when I install the new ones I’ll orient them like the old ones unless that is incorrect. I know the joint shouldn’t be on one of the “horns” and I’m guessing not having them next to each other is good too.

I’m lucky that I have a spare set on the airplane from Mark M years ago, but I will be buying some chain lengths as someone mentioned on here to use as a safety next time I’m changing bungees.
19144
19145
Thanks!

Pacer42Z
04-12-2021, 06:11 AM
Should be correct that it’s harder to extend them. They work opposite to shocks on a car. Extend to absorb the landing shock and retract quickly when you bounce back in the air (like my landings LOL).

Juergen
Pacer N3342Z

clipquito
04-15-2021, 05:28 PM
Anyone know the lifetime of the Clipper bungees? Mine have been on a while ... no sagging and no fraying. Should I change them?

Glen Geller
04-15-2021, 06:28 PM
Anyone know the lifetime of the Clipper bungees? Mine have been on a while ... no sagging and no fraying. Should I change them?
"Quite a while" is not very definite.
If they ain't broke (or showing signs of age) don't worry about them.

Steve Pierce
04-16-2021, 07:20 AM
I change them on condition. Some get stretched more than others on a regular basis. I look for sagging and knotting up and then change them.

Jim Hann
04-16-2021, 05:43 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210416/c2920af8ada934b7f7aae8baf12c295d.jpg
Almost time to harvest the bungee tree. [emoji41] Still need to clean up the other one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Peter Pacer
05-24-2021, 06:54 AM
Good morning. Is there a chance that you still have your bungee tool? If so, is there a possibility of renting it from you? Thank you.

Kelliots
06-01-2022, 10:27 AM
Hello folks, I am fixing to replace my Colts' left side gear leg and also both sides bungees. I have some questions if anyone has solutions:

- How to jack up aircraft to replace the LH gear leg? Lift it up from firewall/mount with thick strap and pulleys? Do I need fixed tail stand also?

- Do I need to jack up both sides to replace bungees, should I use same method as for replacing gear? How often do most folks replace bungees?

- For 1961 Colt, do I use 2 ea. 1080HD's? Best place to buy? I put 25 PSI in both main tires.....

Thanks much, and happy flying! kelliots....'61 Colt w/Madras tips....

Kelliots
06-01-2022, 10:28 AM
Correction, replacing the RH gear leg.....

Steve Pierce
06-02-2022, 07:02 AM
Merged your thread with another on the subject. Look at the first post with pictures.

Google searched:
Replacing bungees site:shortwingpipers.org
This helps keep all relative information in one thread so you don't have to search multiple threads to get all the information.

Jim Hann
06-12-2022, 05:58 PM
I received a PM asking about my double 1080HD setup and if it has sagged at all. So far, it is holding tight. The airplane is apart right now awaiting engineering paperwork to fix my lift strut attach so it hasn’t flown as much as it usually would. But, I am very happy with the setup so far.

Jim

RRHall
06-13-2022, 12:33 PM
I reviewed this thread and was wondering what changes are needed for a PA-22/20? Should I leave it on the tail wheel or raise the tail? Engine hoist at prop or engine mount preferable? I need to remove the left gear for some work on it.

Pacer42Z
06-13-2022, 04:24 PM
I leave it on the tail and use the engine mount to lift the front.

Juergen
Pacer N3342Z

11304
09-19-2022, 11:15 AM
Planning on installing two 1080 HD bungees on a 57 Tripacer with a 160, based on latest recommendations on this thread. Empty weight 1205 #. AC Spruce is out of stock.
Chief has1080 HD made to rigid government specifications by Thomas Taylor & Sons.
Univair has U31322-006 FAA-PMA.
Negligible price difference. Is one preferred over the other?
Thanks,
Jeff

Glen Geller
09-19-2022, 06:05 PM
Planning on installing two 1080 HD bungees on a 57 Tripacer with a 160, based on latest recommendations on this thread. Empty weight 1205 #. AC Spruce is out of stock.
Chief has1080 HD made to rigid government specifications by Thomas Taylor & Sons.
Univair has U31322-006 FAA-PMA.
Negligible price difference. Is one preferred over the other?
Thanks,
Jeff

They should all be manufactured to the same specification so there is probably no discernable difference from various suppliers.
They might all come from the same manufacturer and just be packaged/labeled differently for a particular seller.
I just checked websites, "Pilot Shop" and "Spruce" have the same image in their ad; "Aircraft Specialty" and "Chief" both show the same product from Superior.
I wouldn't worry about it.

11304
09-20-2022, 12:22 AM
Thanks Glenn, I did not know that Aircraft Specialty had them.

Steve Pierce
09-20-2022, 06:22 AM
I just installed a set of 1080HDs from Univair.

11304
09-20-2022, 06:33 AM
Steve,
Thanks,
Jeff

sierrasplitter
06-01-2023, 10:14 AM
Quick Question. I’m installing Bungees today because I found a broken one on one side . Which end of the hydrosorbs faces up ? The end with the larger circle steel or the smaller circle ?


circle ? 21917

sierrasplitter
06-01-2023, 12:30 PM
Never mind . Self explanatory once you look at it .
But , I just found out they do not like hydraulic fluid . I spilled some while bellying my brakes . One broke and the other was working on being broke ��21918