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View Full Version : pa 16 ,pa 22 and pa 18



houndhunter
03-08-2011, 03:06 PM
just a few questions for an idea i have had. how much longer is the wing surface area of a pa18 as compared to a pa 16 or a pa 22? are wings interchangeable with appropriate struts? what is the difference in length and weight of the pa16 compared to the pa22 and pa18? is it possible to take a pa18 wing and keep the flap but increase the aileron surface to that of a pa16 or better to take a pa16 wing and extend to accommodate the pa18 flap? THANKS

alaskadrifter
03-09-2011, 08:27 PM
I believe BatPacer did something similar to his Pacer, try finding his posts.

Steve Pierce
03-09-2011, 10:25 PM
A PA16 has the same aileron as a PA18. The PA18 wing is one wing bay larger than a PA16 wing. A PA18 wing will bolt up to a PA16 fuselage just fine but the strut attach fittings would be at the wrong angle. Not sure what you want, a long wing (PA18) on a short fuselage (PA16) or a short wing on a long fuselage. :)

houndhunter
03-10-2011, 08:33 AM
[QUOTE=Steve Pierce;42039]A PA16 has the same aileron as a PA18. The PA18 wing is one wing bay larger than a PA16 wing. A PA18 wing will bolt up to a PA16 fuselage just fine but the strut attach fittings would be at the wrong angle. Not sure what you want, a long wing (PA18) on a short fuselage (PA16) or a short wing on a long fuselage. :)[] I HAVE A PA16 WITH A 108, AND ON SKIES IN THE SPRING ICE FISHING WHEN THE DAYS ARE PRETTY NICE IT GETS KIND OF SLUSHY AND STICKY BY MID AFTERNOON AND HAVE GONE INTO AFEW SMALL PONDS THAT I HAVE HAD TO SPEND THE NIGHT WITH THE SKIES UP ON CEDAR BOWS AND WAIT FOR THE SNOW TO BE STIFFER IN THE MORNING. JUST ANOTHER DAY OF GOOD FISHING RIGHT!!!WAS JUST WONDERING IF A LONGER WING WITH FLAP COULD HELP. HAVE A FRIEND WITH A TRIPACER ON A NOSE SKI WITH A 160 AND HE NEVER HAS A PROBLEM. JUST THOUGHT A WING CHANGE WOULD BE EASIER THAN AN ENGINE CHANGE. THANKS

Steve Pierce
03-10-2011, 08:56 AM
I don't think you would ever get it approved. Engine upgrade is STC'd and makes the Clipper climb like a homesick angel since it is way lighter than a Pacer or Tri-Pacer. ;)

Grantmac
03-10-2011, 02:00 PM
I've got a Clipper with a 125 and a fairly fine pitch prop.
As Steve says, its climbs like it means business. I imagine an 0-320 would be a real rocket.

-Grant

MN_flyer1
03-10-2011, 06:39 PM
I saw a nice clipper for sale on Barnstormers the other day. The website link took it to a you-tube link showing it flying. Pretty neat.

Throttle Pusher
03-11-2011, 12:56 PM
I have a O-290- D2 for sale, It would give you good performance and dosent eat as much of the blue stuff as the 320.

houndhunter
03-13-2011, 04:50 PM
steve is there an stc to install flaps on a clipper

Steve Pierce
03-13-2011, 05:54 PM
No, you would have to install a Pacer wing and all the associated controls and get an approval. Side slip and an O-320 or trade for a Pacer would be suggestion. However after you fly a Pacer you want more wing area which leads me to the Dakota Cub slotted Pacer wings.

Grantmac
03-13-2011, 07:13 PM
The Clipper doesn't really need flaps if its got enough power, what is needs is more AOA with the tail down. At least that is how mine feels.

That is where unfortunately things get very difficult with a Clipper. Unlike the Pacer, we just don't have very many large tire options to us. It's pretty much 8.00x6 or Bushwheels, no middle ground. I'm not sure what sort of skis your running but getting the tail lower or mains taller would probably do you some good.

Things to look at would be:
-Carrying weight around you don't need. Maybe there is some orphaned wiring, or an old instrument you don't need. Maybe you don't need the backseat all the time. Little things make pounds, and those make a big difference with a Clipper.
-Rigging? Is it to book standard specs? Could it use a little tweeking? This is something you need to discuss with your A&P and stay within the max specs.
As a side note: I'm trying to get my Clipper off a little sooner as well. I've been really taking an eye to my rigging and realize that there are a few areas where it is within specs but at the opposite end for good performance.
My plane has always cruised really well, but it definitely doesn't land or take-off as well as I feel it should.
So I've been looking at my rigging. I've noticed that my ailerons are just ever so slightly reflexed on the ground and in flight. I've read on here that it should be the opposite on the ground, with a little droop that gets take-up in flight.
Also I've always had a slightly heavy left wing, from some rough measurements it looks like it could be a little more wash-out.
Because of these two items I'm going to measure, record and tweak my rigging towards the ends of the specified range which should get me more performance where I need it.
-Lastly: VGs. Notice I put the only thing that costs money last. I'm cheap. Get awesome reviews from the Pacer guys, I've never heard of anyone using them on a PA-16. I'm not sure if the extra AOA capabilities they give you will be much benefit without more static AOA on the ground. That said they are #2 on my list of unnecessary things I'd like for my plane.

-Grant

houndhunter
03-23-2011, 10:34 PM
I agree that in most cases i dont need flaps except when i'm on ski's in march whne in the afternoon temps can reach mid 40's and the snow is soft and there is alot of slush better soft field /shorter take off's would help on some of the smaller ponds i fish