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Thread: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...

  1. #651
    andya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...

    I'm not calling it a PA-20, the previous restoration owner added that plate. I still consider it a PA-22 for all AD's and such. It is still in the registery
    as a PA-22.. I don't think that could be changed because it is in fact a PA-22 airfame, ie 1.5 inch axles, baggage door and other items.
    "Progress is our most important problem"

  2. #652
    smcnutt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...

    We had a FISDO guy who said the same thing and that we needed to start from scratch to re-register it as a PA-20. Took us a while to find somebody in that office that could comprehend the concept of applying an STC (tw conversion) to an existing aircraft. It is and will always be registered as a PA-22. The guy we originally had was a big jet guy and I doubt many 747's get converted to 767's

    The FAA doesn't know what a PA-22/20 is because it really doesn't exist but it's a way for all of us to know it's a conversion. I would think it might be confusing to a controller when you call in as a PA-22 and they look up to see a tail-dragger in the pattern.

    We have the original data plate on our floorboard.
    “Seek advice but use your own common sense.”
    ― Yiddish Proverb

  3. #653
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    Default Re: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...

    Around 2005 the FAA guidance on changing from one model to another required changing the data plate showing the new model. It also had to be re registered as that model. The problem was it was assumed they were on the same type certificate. That is not the case with the PA-20 vs. PA-22. The serial number cannot be changed according to their guidance so it basically left it as a bastardized model. The fact that the conversion was STCed was not entering in the discussion with them. I discussed this with a DAR I was working with on a different project and he said that was being reviewed since it was causing problems interpreting the guidance info with regulations. As far as I know it is no longer written that way in the ASI handbook. Luckily I have a new PMI that understands old airplanes although at times it frustrates him dealing with what should be done and what the regulations allow him to do. He owns an E-2 Cub.

  4. #654

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    Default Re: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-CAS View Post
    Around 2005 the FAA guidance on changing from one model to another required changing the data plate showing the new model. It also had to be re registered as that model. The problem was it was assumed they were on the same type certificate. That is not the case with the PA-20 vs. PA-22. The serial number cannot be changed according to their guidance so it basically left it as a bastardized model. The fact that the conversion was STCed was not entering in the discussion with them. I discussed this with a DAR I was working with on a different project and he said that was being reviewed since it was causing problems interpreting the guidance info with regulations. As far as I know it is no longer written that way in the ASI handbook. Luckily I have a new PMI that understands old airplanes although at times it frustrates him dealing with what should be done and what the regulations allow him to do. He owns an E-2 Cub.
    If you changed to conventional gear by STC, and the STC instructions don't tell you to change the model, it stays as a PA-22. If the STC says change the model and add a supplemental data plate, you add the Supplemental data plate ADJACENT to the original, not over it! If you legitimate change model, then when the 337 goes in it should identify the new model on the face and have a letter accompanying it requesting a new registration with the new model. Once you have the new registration, you ask a DAR or the FAA for a replacement Airworthiness certificate showing the new model. Finally after all that you are legal to operate the aircraft.

    By the way, there is no such thing as a PA22/20. The only legitimate models are what are shown on a TCDS.


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  5. #655
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    Default Re: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...

    I know how all that works. When I sent in my 337 for the conversion STC is what started my headache on this. The inspector at the time didn't want to see the STC paperwork he just wanted me to change the model as per the ASI handbook. After talking to his supervisor and faxing the STC paperwork did I get it resolved. This was when you sent 337's to the FSDO office. A pure case that he didn't understand the STC and jumped down a road that was not going to to be easy to resolve.

    I think we have really drifted this thread off the topic of Andy's restoration. I hope we can get it back on track. A big thank you is in order to Brian for taking detailed photos and documenting the build. I have gone back and looked at several photos to compare what I was doing on my wings. Now using them to plan my fuselage work. Thanks Brian.

  6. #656

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    Default Re: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...

    Just watched the first flight of Andy's rebuild on Brian's Facebook site. I agree with Rick...Brian has done us all a big favour by letting us watch as he works his magic.

    Congrats Andy, that is a beautiful Pacer.

  7. #657
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    Default Re: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...

    Me too !!!!
    And ditto what Rick and Curley said
    Cheers
    HunterJ

  8. #658
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    Default Re: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...

    Anybody notice that the posting persons profile pics are missing or is it just my Apple?

  9. #659

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    Default Re: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...



    Well, first flight as mentioned was a success... need to do a couple small adjustments before he heads home...



    Wish the light was better but Andy is showing that 180 Pacer grin..

    Thank you all for the kind words...

    Brian


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  10. #660
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    Default Re: Andy's Pacer restoration thread...

    Great Job! Now let’s get Andy’s before and after comparison.
    Dave

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