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Thread: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

  1. #11
    28a's Avatar
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    Default Re: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

    For what it's worth, My PA22-135 was converted to an O320-B2B with the Wag Aero SA1-274 in Nov. 1998. It started in 1974 when the O-290-D2 needed work and I contacted the original STC owner, J. Arlington Myers, for information about it. His response clearly indicated that the STC is intended to include the 160 HP engine. It also indicated that he was a retired Piper Experimental Flight Test Supervisor. In '74, for economic reasons I elected to do a top overhaul. In '98, the O-290-D2 was due for an overhaul and I elected to go to the 160 HP. The STC included instructions, dated Nov. 20, 1958 for installing an O320-B2A in a 135 HP PA-22. With some research I discovered the Lycoming (mandatory) service bulletin to change the B2A to B2B. My IA presented the information to the FAA district office and gained approval. The STC cover indicates amendments in 1963 and 1976. I don't know if they influenced any restriction on engine choices. Be advised I am a retired Self Propelled ag equipment lead project engineer and PA-22 owner since 1971, and not an A&P or IA so this is for information only. I also don't know if today's FAA is capable of using the same logic as it was 19 years ago. If it is helpful, I can share some of the documents if you PM me with your e-mail address.

  2. #12
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

    Is there a list of eligible engines in the STC?

  3. #13
    28a's Avatar
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    Default Re: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Is there a list of eligible engines in the STC?
    Steve, The 1st page of the STC only mentions the O-320. Separate detailed installation instructions were included for O-320 and O-320-B2A. I will get pdf copies (17 pages) made if you like.

    Phil

  4. #14
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

    We have to thank Phil for sharing all of his data from this STC. This is invaluable stuff. Note that this is only data and you would still need to purchase the STC.
    STC SA1-274 Documents.pdf
    STC SA1-274 instructions.pdf
    STC SA1-274 Myers letter.pdf
    STC SA1-274 Wagaero O-320 STC.pdf

  5. #15
    efrench's Avatar
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    Default Re: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

    Thank you Phil! (And all the other posters on this). I will begin to draft up the 337 with my IA and submit. Once completed and approved, I will post a copy for others to use. Cheers!
    "If you do something; something else will happen. Don't wiggle the controls" Jim Alsip; EAA Webinar Oct 2015

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

    If you got the STC, I'm curious, is there a Flight Manual Supplement for the O320B series with 160 HP?

  7. #17
    efrench's Avatar
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    Default Re: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    If you got the STC, I'm curious, is there a Flight Manual Supplement for the O320B series with 160 HP?
    I don't know much about anything. My expectation however is yes. The performance charts will change, the fuel grade and consumption will change. I suspect that the airspeed data will remain the same because there will not be a change to the airframe or significant change to the W/B. I am hopeful that the smile on my face will have an impact on the performance and flight characteristics!
    "If you do something; something else will happen. Don't wiggle the controls" Jim Alsip; EAA Webinar Oct 2015

  8. #18

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    Default Re: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

    Actually, the flight manual changes that would be there if one exists are as follows:
    Limitations Section
    Fuel changes from 80/87 to 91/96
    Prop diameter limits change for minimum diameter from 72.5" to 72"
    Static RPM limits change from 2480 max, 2250 min to 2450 max, 2250 min.

    There are no performance charts in the Flight Manual, so no changes there.

    I did a Field Approval on one years ago, when they wouldn't allow Flight Manual Supplements for field approvals. They required placards for the static RPM change for that one. The hardest part of that Field Approval was the Part 36 noise compliance, even though it was going to a configuration that was already certified!

  9. #19
    28a's Avatar
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    Default Re: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Actually, the flight manual changes that would be there if one exists are as follows:
    Limitations Section
    Fuel changes from 80/87 to 91/96
    Prop diameter limits change for minimum diameter from 72.5" to 72"
    Static RPM limits change from 2480 max, 2250 min to 2450 max, 2250 min.

    There are no performance charts in the Flight Manual, so no changes there.

    I did a Field Approval on one years ago, when they wouldn't allow Flight Manual Supplements for field approvals. They required placards for the static RPM change for that one. The hardest part of that Field Approval was the Part 36 noise compliance, even though it was going to a configuration that was already certified!

    I agree with all of the above. I had the tach red line changed from 2600 to 2700. Airspeed markings did not change. The original PA-22-160's had higher speed ranges on the TC. Maneuvering speed (106 for 135 hp vs. 112 for PA-22 160) is the only one that I had to pay much attention to in rough air. I had the 135 prop overhauled and changed from 135 cruise pitch of 57" to 58". The 25 hp increase gave the old plane a whole different fun personality. I would be delighted to have to pull the throttle back to stay in the green arc in cruise but that didn't happen. I hope it gets closer with the tail wheel conversion.

  10. #20
    efrench's Avatar
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    Default Re: Information overload! Upgrade to 160 hp?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Actually, the flight manual changes that would be there if one exists are as follows:
    Limitations Section
    Fuel changes from 80/87 to 91/96
    Prop diameter limits change for minimum diameter from 72.5" to 72"
    Static RPM limits change from 2480 max, 2250 min to 2450 max, 2250 min.

    There are no performance charts in the Flight Manual, so no changes there.

    I did a Field Approval on one years ago, when they wouldn't allow Flight Manual Supplements for field approvals. They required placards for the static RPM change for that one. The hardest part of that Field Approval was the Part 36 noise compliance, even though it was going to a configuration that was already certified!
    Thank you. Would you mind sharing the 337 or the language? How did you overcome the Part 36 issue? This may not be as much of a factor in Alaska?

    I am currently STC'd for 150 and Borer prop, so my static is as you list already, my prop diameter is 82. The fuel will change to 91/96 but who makes that any more? So likely 100LL. An earlier poster indicated that it is possible for MOGAS in 160hp; I'll need to investigate that a bit more.
    "If you do something; something else will happen. Don't wiggle the controls" Jim Alsip; EAA Webinar Oct 2015

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