Wheel Landings

[Gilbert Pierce]

I watched a guy with a two week old Citabria demonstrate
that once. He never did again after a new prop and engine
tear down.
Dave

"Hey guys, watch this!"

[redbarron55]

I think the problem might be that the tail is not brought up by braking, but rather the tail is kept at the angle of attack you desire with the elevator and the reaction from the braking will require putting the tail back down ( rearward stick).
The braking force should never exceed the the amount of the elevator available.
By the way I believe the certification requirements will not allow the nose to pitch forward enough to hit the ground with forward stick. The elevator and stabilizer tend to offset each other in this configuration. All bets off under braking.
The idea is that the negative angle of attack loads the gear for better braking. Balance whth the yoke. If it takes full back stick to keep the aircraft "level" then so be it. As you slow down the negative lift decreased and the effectiveness of the elevatod is less as well. At this point you should probably be putting the tail.

[Steve Pierce]

Anyone who takes his wife into Mile High, first time in the Idaho Rockies not even flying their own familiar plane can give me lessons...sounds good!

Stephen, That was easy since I was in a Super Cub, way more challenging in the Pacer and you can haul all the Cub Driver's stuff in for him.

[blue44]

hi, a search didn't generate any posts on the subject, but are wheel landings appropriate for the short wing Pipers ? I am new to the Clipper and staying pretty busy in a three-point landing... Cheers, Donn

[redbarron55]

A search will show the normal differing opinions, but my opinion is that the Pacer and Clipper are some of the beat wheel landing aircraft around.
Unfortunately there are few instructors left who can teach you how to properly wheel land anything anymore.
If you search carefully you can find my old post on how I think it should be done.

http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum...wheel+landings

Rollie sent this PM back in 2013:

http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum...wpm&pmid=22022

JDB,

I just wanted to thank you for the really excellent explanation of whats going on during a wheel landing and how to wheel land. I've been flying my Pacer for a little over a year and have been asking anyone with more tail wheel time than me how they do it and never got a good answer. The local instructor teaches to come in at whatever speed gives you a level attitude and just fly it on at that speed and then cut power. Landing at 80-90mph is worthless to me and I wasn't comfortable with that at all.

After just a handful of flights practicing the technique you described I am already very comfortable and now can decide at the last second which way I want to land.

The reason for the private message instead of posting on the thread is that the thread was very productive for the first 6 or 7 pages but then we had people who just wanted to put their opinions on without ever going out and trying it for themselves, and generally once that starts all the thread is good for is uninformed bickering.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that, at least for one pilot, you were a big help and I'll be a lot more confident landing in unimproved fields, which is what my friends and I do for fun.

thanks,

Rollie

[Gilbert Pierce]

hi, a search didn't generate any posts on the subject, but are wheel landings appropriate for the short wing Pipers ? I am new to the Clipper and staying pretty busy in a three-point landing... Cheers, Donn

Do whatever you are most comfortable with.
My previous aircraft could only be wheel landed except in calm air. I can do wheel landings. In fact I did one this week.
According to my log book I have 2553 landings in the Clipper. I would guess 2500 of them are 3-point. I have never wheel landed in a crosswind in the Clipper and don’t intend to.
Others here have an opposite experience.
If I arrive over the touchdown spot hot I just go ahead and wheel land but never with a crosswind of more than about 5 to 7 mph.

[blue44]

that's a nice thread at nine pages, thanks JDB. Searching on "wheelies" brought many more... Donn

[dgapilot]

You can wheel land most any Tailwheels airplane, but short of a Beech 18 or DC-3, why would you want to? The tail has to come down sooner or later, might as well make a min energy landing and get it over with right up front.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gilbert Pierce]

You can wheel land most any Tailwheels airplane, but short of a Beech 18 or DC-3, why would you want to? The tail has to come down sooner or later, might as well make a min energy landing and get it over with right up front.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your response reminds me what the previous owner and FedEx pilot that delivered my Clipper said to me. He told me he landed in Goodland, Kansas on he way here in a direct 30kt cross wind. I asked him if he wheel landed it. He said “why would want to do that. Don’t ever wheel land this airplane in a crosswind”
As I posted earlier I have religiously followed his learned advice.

[robertsailor]

Most of my landings are wheel landings in the Pacer including cross winds as long as they are not too strong. If it's just the wife and I we approach around 60mph with full flap and I use a touch of power just before I touch down, most of the time it's just a kiss. If it's gusty or you have stronger cross winds your usually better off 3 pointing it as you can pin it. I find the ailerons to lack power when you are really slow but I expect the Clipper would be much better.
You should be very proficient in full stall landings in all conditions before you move on to wheel landings...in my opinion.