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Thread: ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

  1. #321
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

    Minor modification to make an adapter plate. This policy memo allows you to install an ADSB unit even if your aircraft model is not on the AML (aircraft model list) for the STC.
    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...3?OpenDocument

  2. #322
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

    Ok now I am confused. One section says it can be a minor modification if installed with approved data and another section says if it is installed with previously approved data to submit a 337 to OK City. A 337 for a minor modification?

    Would some better than me at reading confusing FAA statements please decipher the FAA policy letter?
    Last edited by Gilbert Pierce; 11-08-2018 at 09:45 AM.

  3. #323
    McDaver63's Avatar
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    Default ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbert Pierce View Post
    Ok now I am confused. One section says it can be a minor modification if installed with approved data and another section says if it is installed with previously approved data to submit a 337 to OK City. A 337 for a minor modification?

    Would some better than me at reading confusing FAA statements please decipher the FAA policy letter?
    Gilbert, I was a bit confused by that as well. 337’s are only for Major Repairs or Alterations and STC’s right? Unless they mean for installation on those aircraft that will have an STC for it.


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    Last edited by McDaver63; 11-08-2018 at 11:07 AM.
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  4. #324
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    Default Re: ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

    This from Garmin on the GDL 82: Does the installation of the GDL 82 require an STC?
    The GDL 82 is a TSO'd product, it does not have an STC and does not need one to be installed.

    The FAA has been quoted as saying they are committed to making these installations simple. The more I read the more complicated and confusing it gets. It appears you also need a either a Flight Manual Suppliment or a Supplimental Flight Manual signed by the FAA depending wether your airplane is CAR 3 or FAR 23.

    Airplane Flight Manual Supplement for the​190-01810-13, Rev. 1
    Garmin GDL 82​Page iii
    Garmin International, Inc.1200 E. 151st StreetOlathe, Kansas 66062 U.S.A.FAA APPROVEDAIRPLANE FLIGHT MANUAL SUPPLEMENTOrSUPPLEMENTAL AIRPLANE FLIGHT MANUALfor theGarmin GDL 82as installed in____________________________________________Airplane Make and Model Registration Number: ______________ Serial Number:__________________
    This document serves as an Airplane Flight Manual Supplement or Supplemental Airplane Flight Manual for the installation and operation of the Garmin GDL 82 ADS-B UAT Transmitter. This document must be incorporated into the FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual or provided as a FAA Approved Supplemental Airplane Flight Manual and carried in the airplane at all times when the Garmin GDL 82 is installed in accordance with ________________________.

    The information contained herein supplements the FAAApproved Airplane Flight Manual. For limitations, procedures, loading and performance information not contained in this document, refer to the FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual, markings, or placards.



    FAA Approved By: ______________________________


    Federal Aviation Administration
    City:______________________
    State:_____________________

    Date:​_______________
    Last edited by Gilbert Pierce; 11-08-2018 at 11:07 AM.

  5. #325
    McDaver63's Avatar
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    Default ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbert Pierce View Post
    This from Garmin on the GDL 82: Does the installation of the GDL 82 require an STC?
    The GDL 82 is a TSO'd product, it does not have an STC and does not need one to be installed.

    The FAA has been quoted as saying they are committed to making these installations simple. The more I read the more complicated and confusing it gets. It appears you also need a either a Flight Manual Suppliment or a Supplimental Flight Manual signed by the FAA depending wether your airplane is CAR 3 or FAR 23.

    Airplane Flight Manual Supplement for the​190-01810-13, Rev. 1
    Garmin GDL 82​Page iii
    Garmin International, Inc.1200 E. 151st StreetOlathe, Kansas 66062 U.S.A.FAA APPROVEDAIRPLANE FLIGHT MANUAL SUPPLEMENTOrSUPPLEMENTAL AIRPLANE FLIGHT MANUALfor theGarmin GDL 82as installed in____________________________________________Airplane Make and Model Registration Number: ______________ Serial Number:__________________
    This document serves as an Airplane Flight Manual Supplement or Supplemental Airplane Flight Manual for the installation and operation of the Garmin GDL 82 ADS-B UAT Transmitter. This document must be incorporated into the FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual or provided as a FAA Approved Supplemental Airplane Flight Manual and carried in the airplane at all times when the Garmin GDL 82 is installed in accordance with ________________________.

    The information contained herein supplements the FAAApproved Airplane Flight Manual. For limitations, procedures, loading and performance information not contained in this document, refer to the FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual, markings, or placards.



    FAA Approved By: ______________________________


    Federal Aviation Administration
    City:______________________
    State:_____________________

    Date:​_______________
    According to the previously posted FAA memorandum, It states that a supplement to the AFM for the ADS-B Out does not require FAA approval just the below statement added.

    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgPolicy.nsf/0/1fdea629cd029a7c86257f7900601653/$FILE/AFS-360_2016-03-02.pdf

    Does installation of an ADS-B Out system require revision of the Aircraft Flight Manual (AFM)?

    Yes, following installation of a compliant ADS-B OUT system the General section of the AFM must be revised to include the following statement. ..The installed ADS-B OUT system has been shown to meet the equipment performance requirements of 14 CFR 91.227:· Applicable AFM revisions do not require FAA approval.




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    Last edited by McDaver63; 11-08-2018 at 11:39 AM.
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  6. #326
    rsrguy3's Avatar
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    Default Re: ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

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  7. #327
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    Default Re: ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

    I never fly in A,B or C airspace but need ADSB OUT because I am based inside a mode C veil. It might be just easier to move then try to decipher the FAA rules.
    On the other hand I might just install it, do the flight checks, get my FAA letter, my $500 rebate, make a log book entry and get on with life.
    Every year the FSDO gets a new manager and new batch of ex Army helicopter mechanics. They are more confused than I am.

  8. #328
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    Default Re: ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

    I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things

  9. #329
    McDaver63's Avatar
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    Default Re: ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbert Pierce View Post
    I never fly in A,B or C airspace but need ADSB OUT because I am based inside a mode C veil. It might be just easier to move then try to decipher the FAA rules.
    On the other hand I might just install it, do the flight checks, get my FAA letter, my $500 rebate, make a log book entry and get on with life.
    Every year the FSDO gets a new manager and new batch of ex Army helicopter mechanics. They are more confused than I am.
    Gilbert, that’s what I’m going to do as well. The way I read it is you only need to file a 337 if you did an alteration to the aircraft in order to install it. The way I look at it is that ADS-B Out will be required equipment if operating in the designated airspace. Just like the FAR list of required equipment listed for the aircraft and for VFR & IFR ops. Your TCDS does not list all that equipment even though it is required.


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  10. #330
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    Default Re: ADSB-Out . . Creeping toward 2020

    I don't see anything listed that would define the installation of an ADSB unit as a major alteration. There might be an AC on it.
    (1) Type-Certificated Aircraft. ADS-B Out systems and equipment installed or usedin type-certificated aircraft must have a design approval issued under part 21 or must be installedby field approval, if appropriate. The current edition of AC 20-165, Airworthiness Approval ofAutomatic Dependent Surveillance—Broadcast (ADS-B) Out Systems, provides guidance oninstallation of ADS-B Out systems. FAA Policy Memorandum, Installation Approval forADS-B Out Systems, dated 2016, provides information on how ADS-B systems may be installedby field approval.

    https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...114A_CHG_1.pdf

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