How would you build an experimental Pacer?

[cook11]

I've been reading quite a bit about the Pacer wings and what can be done to them and It appears that what some people are trying to accomplish is to have a Maule wing with the longer span and flap area. So could I not just find a set of Maule wings that need some work done to them change the wing tip to a better design and add leading edge slats to them? There is a Maule that I know of that is stripped so I could get some mounting dimensions to confirm that the wings will fit.

[Theo]

Well if it was experimental and I had the cash this is the power plant I would go with.
http://ulpower.com/en/engines/ul520/ul520is
it is about 45lbs lighter than an O-320 and you can get 200 HP for take off.

[Stephen]

I've been reading quite a bit about the Pacer wings and what can be done to them and It appears that what some people are trying to accomplish is to have a Maule wing with the longer span and flap area. So could I not just find a set of Maule wings that need some work done to them change the wing tip to a better design and add leading edge slats to them? There is a Maule that I know of that is stripped so I could get some mounting dimensions to confirm that the wings will fit.

The main problem with a Maul wing should be attachment also, compare weights. Maules are Heavy compared to Pacers. There is nothing wrong with a Pacer wing. First, you should decide on span. Anything from 30 to 33 feet is fine. Piper has an approved splice which I am using to go to 36 feet span using SC struts. Secondly, you should choose a wing tip. Sullivan and Madras are the most effective based on some very good Cub testing data. Third, choose your aileron and flap set up. Moving the aileron outboard is a must. How big you make the flaps is a choice. An easy modification is to change the flap mechanism so you can get 50 degrees. Finally, using slats, cuffs or VG's is maybe the least significant choice. VG's are very popular but are often not used with slats. You have to decide if slats are worth the expense, weight and work. Ask people who have flown them to find out about their effectiveness. I think they require very high angles of attack. Cuffs are easy to install. On my wing modification, I am choosing large flaps and VG's. Slats are not an option on my certified wing.

[cook11]

Stephen thanks for the reply. I do recall being told previously that the Maule wing will fit but are heavier than a Pacers. I do like that they already have the large flaps in place with the negative flap setting for cruise speed and that the ailerons are moved out to the tips, also the extra fuel capacity is a plus. The M5 Maule fuselage that I have access to, its wing attachment points measure up to my Pacers and the strut-fuselage attachment bracket is identical. The Maule wing appears to be quite a bit stronger when compared to the Pacers.

[Stephen]

Stephen thanks for the reply. I do recall being told previously that the Maule wing will fit but are heavier than a Pacers. I do like that they already have the large flaps in place with the negative flap setting for cruise speed and that the ailerons are moved out to the tips, also the extra fuel capacity is a plus. The M5 Maule fuselage that I have access to, its wing attachment points measure up to my Pacers and the strut-fuselage attachment bracket is identical. The Maule wing appears to be quite a bit stronger when compared to the Pacers.

I will be curious to hear how the Maul wings work out both attachment and weight wise.

Lengthening flaps or ailerons are not a big deal. All you do is splice together the control surfaces. The splice can be the strongest point. Also, moving hinge brackets on the wing is simple work for someone building a plane.

In my project this winter I am planning on going to 110 inch flaps by splicing a Pacer flap with a SC aileron. The trick is to pick components that will give you a good hinge layout. Moving hinges on the control surface is a pain.

[cook11]

Would anyone know what a stock covered Pacer wing weighs? Thanks!

[Pacerfgoe]

I'd like to try drooped ailerons with the extended flaps.....on a separate selector handle, so you can use them or not.

[cook11]

Anyone know what a complete stock Pacer wing weighs in at?

[Southern Aero]

Stephen thanks for the reply. I do recall being told previously that the Maule wing will fit but are heavier than a Pacers. I do like that they already have the large flaps in place with the negative flap setting for cruise speed and that the ailerons are moved out to the tips, also the extra fuel capacity is a plus. The M5 Maule fuselage that I have access to, its wing attachment points measure up to my Pacers and the strut-fuselage attachment bracket is identical. The Maule wing appears to be quite a bit stronger when compared to the Pacers.

cook11,

The Maule wing is sort of just a metalized Pacer wing, B. D. Maule made his first airplane from a modified Pacer so a lot of dimensions interchange. Both have 31 inch spar centers. .....Maule eliminates the brace wires/strut at the tank bay and compression struts but still a little heavier than the Piper. If you get rid of the tip bow, add a couple ribs and a good tip (Hoerner style!) you will have an almost identical wing in dimension as the Maule. This has already been done in an STC or two. Adding any more will get risky. The loads just inboard of the strut attach point increase progressively with length.......compression loads at the top of the spar would be the most vulnerable. Piper adds that small angle there for this reason. (Just go to a SC long wing and strut if you want more area than this modification). Move ailerons outboard and increase flaps as already discussed. One of the wings I/we are building is like this but also putting in a control "mixer" to get the "drooped" ailerons you mentioned as well as reflex about 5 degrees for cruise. All surfaces move down together to 12 - 15 degrees and also reflex up together. Reflex will help a little but these are "dirty" airplanes. Now, with a "true" slat, not an add on, and you will have a wing with a lift coefficient approaching 3 times that of the clean wing "with it all hung out" ............ and with a greatly reduced AOA. ............. much better for landings. The slotted L14 wing was a great design but without proper instruction/training/experience you can get one of these wings on short fuselages up on its nose in a heartbeat. The L14 (long fuselage and wing) was designed with the full span slot in the 40's for short fields obviously but main objective was for a hard climb 45 degrees or so, to get out of ground fire as quick as possible.

But back to your type of wing preference........ Metal wings might be a little more durable but they are heavier and don't lend themselves to a "field repair" and usually build quicker. Rag wings are lighter but less durable but easily temporarily repaired and serviceable. ....... everything is a trade off. Everything I build I think of "serviceability"....... be it fuselage, wing or tail. Being experimental, you have a lot of different ways you can go.

Keep us informed of your progress!

[Steve Pierce]

The slotted L14 wing was a great design but without proper instruction/training/experience you can get one of these wings on short fuselages up on its nose in a heartbeat.

I have a lot of time in the Dakota slotted winged Pacer and never saw a tendency to nose over. Curious to hear more on this.