How would you build an experimental Pacer?

[Southern Aero]

I have a lot of time in the Dakota slotted winged Pacer and never saw a tendency to nose over. Curious to hear more on this.

Mornin Steve,

Guess I could have been a little more clear................ All I meant was the slotted wing will "allow" you to get into that situation if you let it. Short coupled airframe, high angle of attack (up to 44-45 degrees), low speed, tailwheel touches to ground and you are done flying. Throw in some winds, brakes, terrain along with the inherent big bounce that's next. .......... A more experienced tailwheel pilot would probly not let it get this deep but if so would be more apt to handle the recovery. I think you would agree the farther you delve into the tailwheel first landing the more this could be an issue ................. My wife complains that I'm not always clear

[Steve Pierce]

I think it is less prone to nosing over than a Super Cub. More weight on the tail.

[PACERGUY]

I would agree with Steve always felt safer with hard braking in my pacer than in my cub due to the pacer tail weight. I could lock my tires and if the tail came up just ease up on the brakes pacer tale would drop back down, not so much with the cub. Southern Aero brings up a good point that effects both planes. A stock wing, properly rigged will keep flying and go slower with the tail well below the mains. The transition from this to a 3-point or wheel landing without hitting tailwheel first has been one of hardest skills to master for me(not there yet). One thing that would help this is to build in a greater wing AOI. This would allow the wing to have the same AOA without the tail being so low. You would still have to raise the tail to pin the mains and brake hard (depending on tire and service) but it would help taking the tailwheel bounce out of the picture.
One other point is even if a wing is done flying it is not done lifting!! At normal 3 point you still have a high AOA and the resulting lift can cause you to skip or skid when hard braking. A gust or direction change in the wind can make it fly again. There is a reason some people in windy areas prefer a stock wing over extended/square wing. I am a fan of bigger wings but everything you change has an effect on the handling some of them you may not like.
DENNY

[Don D]

I want to go pretty fast and pretty slow. Best of both worlds. Square wings with D&E tip. Move ailerons out to wing tip. Extend keller type slotted flaps to fill area of moved ailerons. Aileron cove to fit aileron (ailerons will be much lighter and more responsive, you can throw a cat thru the aileron gap on a stock Piper wing. Grove gear with flat floor and Cessna type seat rails. Left side door and skylight. Now To get your attention. Tri-cycle gear, yea NOSE WhEEL !!! Piper got it right in 1952 ( unless you are a ski guy). That tailwheel crap is all about your ego. I,ve flown and instructed in all sorts of taildraggers and haven,t ground looped in almost 45 years. Ha! O320 -150 hp.raised 2 inches, Catto 78x52, 3inch prop extension with nose bowl to match (improves looks and gets the prop further from that beautiful NOSE WHEEL). Save wieght where you can.

[Stephen]

If you have flown tail daggers for 45 years, what advantages are you looking for with a nose wheel?

Not weight or speed. Looks?

[Don D]

Didn,t say I haven,t ground looped. It,s just been 45 years. Did put my super cub on it,s back just a couple years ago but different story. Had loose nut behind the wheel.
I just think the ease in handling is a good trade for the looks and slight speed advantage of the tail dragger. Take-off performance might be better with the nose wheel because of angle of attack. Owned 51 135 Pacer, 60 160 Tri-pacer, built and owned 200 hp bushmaster, 55 c-180 and now experimental Supercub(fixed it). That Tri-pacer was a sweet little plane.

[JPerkins]

I actually agree with Don. I'd have never done a tailwheel conversion to my if I didn't fly where I do. Can't land a nose wheel most of the places I go. If I was in the lower 48 and just hopping from strip to strip I'd have left the bird alone. Landings where a no brainer.

[EddieFoy]

Take-off performance might be better with the nose wheel because of angle of attack. .

Care to explain your thinking?

You've got all the angle of attack you will ever need in a tail dragger when you start the roll.

[CamTom12]

Care to explain your thinking?

You've got all the angle of attack you will ever need in a tail dragger when you start the roll.

In conventional geared airplanes, we're limited to the existing 3-point AoA until after the mains leave the ground. Depending on the model, a trike can sometimes get a larger AoA with the mains still on the ground by raising the nose until the tail of the plane is dang near scraping the ground.

I'd still rather fly a TD, but that's just because its what I enjoy. Nothing wrong with either in my opinion.

[Don D]

You can get a little more angle with a nose dragger. You want least drag (0 angle of attack)possible up until rotation for take off. Read agian, I did say "might" Move over for the nose dragger cubs at Valdez. I,m in favor of the nose wheel mostly for easy handling not a for off airport plane. But without 606 up front and some 29 inch air streaks on the mains it would do pretty good even off