Short wing....no flaps...flyng Milk Stool!!

[FlashPilot]

Hey all,

BRAND NEW MEMBER...so be gentle!!

Just started flying a Colt. My pal decided to start learning to fly. He found a Colt 108 on eBay UK for about $9000 USD (we are in the UK). We went along....had a look, the owner threw the keys at me and, even though I hadn't flown one before, told me and a pal to go for a fly.

I loved it straight away. Simple...needed a bit of rudder....needs some TLC....needs some time on it....but what a great little plane. SOLD!! My pal bought it there and then and is learning in it when the UK weather plays ball and when he has the time. So....I am flying it quite a bit (when I'm not flying for work).

Getting more used to it, but still learning a LOT about it and don't know anyone over here with much time in one....so having to "self teach"!

So....the ASI is in MPH/KNOTS. Can you guys recommend speeds for approach (2 up) for flying into a farm strip. Speeds from previous owner seem too quick. Also, how do you folks feel about slipping on approach?? It's a tri gear job. The picture for landing, always being "flapless", is a little strange....so looking for any tips and tricks for ownership. Already looking at adding another to the hangar if we can (a tailwheel Pacer with the O290 engine and 4 seats....and TINY little N reg on the back....PERFECT!!)

Thanks all....all advice for general handling (stalls....short field....approaches...climbs....cross winds.....dead stick/power off landings.....all very welcome!!)

R

[andya]

power off approach, it will come down like a brick at 70-75 mph, you'll have to experiment, too slow (poweroff) there won't be enough energy in the flare to
kill the rate of descent. Power on approach , stabilized, I would start at 1.3 indicated stall speed in that airplane and work from there. I have a pacer and
even no flaps I'll do a stable power approach at my inicated stall speed +7-10 mph (calm day).

[FlashPilot]

Hi Andya,

Thanks for the reply. I used 70-75 and if anything, it felt a little quick....but I will use the "1.3 stall" you suggest and do a few more landings. It' felt kinda quick....however, I think it may explain the lack of a smooth landing (not heavy....but I can normally get decent arrivals). The attitude is taking me a while to get used to. Seems easy to end up in a flat approach if you're not careful, so I have been trying to keep nudging the nose down, as it approaches the centre of the runway, so as not to get too flat on short final. Energy/speed management seems easy enough, even when pointing downhill.

[Gilbert Pierce]

I fly the Clipper down final at 65-70, no flaps, usually carrying about 1400 rpm to maintain 500 to 600 ft./min descent rate.
Power off in the flair and if I get aggressive with the back stick land tail wheel first. Have never run out of elevator.
Without a tad of power at that approach speed the descent rate can build pretty fast. With time you'll feel it start to build in your butt.
The Clipper is about a hundred pounds or more lighter in every configuration than a 22 or 22/20 but does not have the balanced elevator. I would guess at an empty wt of 1050 it is about the same as the 22-108.

[gliderman]

Hi

one thing I'd like to mention is about stalls.if you put her in a nose high attitude and pull the power off and stall the A/C you will find that she will stay in a nose high attitude- the nose won't drop- and suddenly you are descending a 1000 ft a min with the nose in the air
got in trouble once when i was in the mountains and got into this configuration( playing with slow flight) and the trees came up FAST- no harm done except to my ego.
just showed this to a prospective Shortwing owner last night.....

go give this a try with lots of altitude...

hope this helps
Shane-o

[FlashPilot]

Hey all,

Thanks for the info. All really useful. I've been playing a bit with the stall, as the first time I ever flew it (when the owner just sent us off....he was an odd chap in some ways)...I was amazed at how benign it was. In fact, without a stall warning fitted, I can see it being very easy to be stalled and not even realise. Whist the characteristic is really nice, it does mean you have to be very careful with it in slow flight. As a matter of interest, I haven't tried stalling in a climbing turn, so may have a go at that later today (probably before some of you folks are awake....so shall write again).

I definitely find myself carrying some power and having the speed back in the mid 60's for the approach, as we are always (almost) flying in and out of little farm strips. On that note, we may be looking at putting a finer pitch prop on at some point....

[Cub Junkie]

I always used 70 mph on approach in my Colt and it didn't seem to matter if solo are loaded with fuel and a pax. On my one unplanned off airport landing when the engine quit and the prop was not windmilling(crankshaft broke) it took quite a bit more rate of descent to maintain 70. Great airplane with no bad habits. Still one of the best deals going in a general aviation aircraft.

[Old3pacer]

Slipping has always worked very well for me. I tend to approach a little high in case I need to trade some altitude.

[Old3pacer]

What is the length of the farm strip you fly into?

[FlashPilot]

The strip isn't that short....but has slightly awkward approaches (due power lines and trees) and it also has an uphill gradient for the first section and mid section. I will try and get some pictures at some point. We are about to mark, roll, drill and develop a new strip which will be much nicer and about 800 metres. The temptation is to buy a lovely little N reg taildragger Pacer with the O290 in, 4 seats, climb prop and a wild bright red paint scheme (theres one for sale, with that spec that looks FABULOUS...over the puddle in Ireland)....but.....money has scuppered that plan!! lol