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Re: Tri-Pacer Soft Field Take-off / Landing Performance.
Here is a Video of Ski Takeoff using Soft/Short field Technique I use quite often use especially on skis. Once the plane feels it will go (around 40) I apply full flaps and full aft on the controls till it pops off then slowly neutralize the controls till I reach 60 then slowly retract flaps.
Last edited by piperrocks2013; 12-30-2016 at 02:03 PM.
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Re: Tri-Pacer Soft Field Take-off / Landing Performance.
My plane used to weigh 1180, nothing special to the wing, std, no VG's. I have done the power on approach with me and my daughter and somewhere around 20-25 gallons.
At that speed the nose is high but I don't find that uncomfortable. Most of my landings are no flaps. I did not see that much difference between stall speed with no and full flaps. My type approach requires that power be kept on till pretty close to the runway in the flare, maybe 2-4 feet above the runway, just guessing. Crossing the fence at 70 and above makes it float to far down the runway. My theory as I instruct daughter, is no sense having too much airspeed, the flare being longer means you are fighting
any little wind gusts that much longer before the wheels touch. Even at 55-60 and kill the power 5-8 feet in the air, I have enough energy and pitch authority to hold it off
in a "normal" flare to get reasonable landings. Yes, the airplane will set up a sink rate but it seems to have the pitch authority to hold it off when coming in at that flat
approach. If you did power off at that speed, the elevator authority would only change pitch attitude and AOA but like not arrest the sink rate enough to keep it from
making a hard landing.
"Progress is our most important problem"
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Re: Tri-Pacer Soft Field Take-off / Landing Performance.
Geez, lots of information there Andy. Forgive my restatement of your words, but I want to try to emulate what you're doing.
1) You approach flat with no flaps at 60 to 55 over the numbers. To me that means you're a little bit low in your approach about 800 to a 1,000' out, right?
2) You have power on (1,100, 1,300, 1,500 RPM?) until 5-8 feet altitude then pull to idle and hold the nose up, keeping it flying as long as possible and let it sink while holding it off as long as possible in flare.
Please comment/correct any misread. And, thanks for your time.
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Re: Tri-Pacer Soft Field Take-off / Landing Performance.
SS, Get your scale out, draw a 3 deg from the touch down point, that is were the bulk of pilots that worked for a living feel comfortable. Just about all ILS are about 3 deg.
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Re: Tri-Pacer Soft Field Take-off / Landing Performance.
Copy, three degrees. How do I project that into my cockpit environment? My AI doesn't tell me degrees. I appreciate the insight, but have to figure out how to get there now.
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Re: Tri-Pacer Soft Field Take-off / Landing Performance.
You will have to lay it out with some crossing altitudes. Your IA won't even know what you are talking about. This is a CFI question.
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Re: Tri-Pacer Soft Field Take-off / Landing Performance.
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Re: Tri-Pacer Soft Field Take-off / Landing Performance.
Originally Posted by
Clayton Harper
You will have to lay it out with some crossing altitudes. Your IA won't even know what you are talking about. This is a CFI question.
I'am an IA, I know what your talking about.
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Re: Tri-Pacer Soft Field Take-off / Landing Performance.
At an early stage of another life, a highly qualified test pilot showed me how to roughly assess a 3 degree approach path from the cockpit.
The breadth of your index and middle fingers held together at arm's length in front of your eyes normally creates an included angle of about 3 degrees at your eyes.
On final approach, take your right hand off the throttle for a few seconds and extend it as far as you can in front of your eyes. Put the top of your index finger on the horizon, and what you can see lined up with the bottom of your middle finger is where a 3 degree approach path would strike the ground. If that's the aiming point, then you're on a 3 degree approach. If not, you can quickly tell if you are high or low and can adjust the approach path as necessary.
First, you need a horizon, and second, confidence to take your hand off the throttle for a few seconds.
I find it's useful below about 500ft going into strange, sloping, bush strips, as a quick and dirty check. Much above 500ft and it 'loses precision'.
Happy New Year!
PS if you want a steeper approach, use 3 fingers!
Last edited by 59pacer; 12-30-2016 at 11:14 PM.
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Re: Tri-Pacer Soft Field Take-off / Landing Performance.
Subsonic, 330 ft/nm is a 3 degree G/S. So, a mile out you would be 330 above the touch down zone and that's for a standard 3* g/s, which most ILS's are set for. That's a bit low for me in the Tri-Pacer, but spot on for the work airplane.
If you use GPS and can set for distance back from the threshold, not the centre of the airport, some mental math can keep you 'on slope'. Just add Touch Down Zone elev to the distance back formula and don't go below that number (especially at night) . 1/2 nm back, tdz plus 165 is the lowest you should be. 1 nm back, TDZ plus 330 is the slope.
Again, I fly a steeper, sometimes much steeper approach in the Tripacer. But that's where the airliners and IFR traffic is looking to be, generally.
Cheers
Last edited by John Umbach; 12-30-2016 at 11:20 PM.
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