Pawnee PA-25 150

[collegeboy]

Hey guys and gals, new to this forum. I am embarking on buying an original Pawnee with the 0-320 engine. I know there is an STC out there for the O-360, but seem to be having trouble finding it. I know it is a little bit of a long shot on here but wondering if any of you know who owned it, or them.

Thanks CB.

[Jeff J]

I don't see an STC for installing an O-360 on a Pawnee. There were 2 for installing the 540 but don't know if your plane would be a candidate. If you know of a Pawnee with an O-360 you may need to check their paperwork. I use to own a PA-20 that had a one time STC (field approval) to install an O-320-B3B but that STC never showed up on any listings for the PA-20.

[collegeboy]

Tanks Jeff, I know of a few planes with the O-360 on it. I'll be going by a guys place soon I'll stop in and talk to him. I am Canadian, and checked the Transport Canada site and found the STC number but that is it, no other information on who owned it or anything. I looked for the STC number on FAA site and it wasn't there.

not sure I need an engine that big in the area I'll be using the plane. The fields here are not that big.

Thnks a lot,

CB

[Steve Pierce]

Here are all the STCs for the PA25, I didn't see one. Use type certificate 2A8

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...e?OpenFrameSet

[dgapilot]

I think most of the PA-25s with O360s were done on Field Approvals. I know of one that has an O-470 in it also.

I just looked in my records, and I have two different 337s with field approvals for O-360s on PA-25s. I'm out of town right now, but if you want, I could email them to you this weekend.

[Cayman44]

Have access to a 150, but need more power in Colorado. With a field approval, would your airworthiness be experimental? Need restricted with glider towing

[cubscout]

College Boy, don't know how this works in Canada. In US, IF (a BIG if) you could get a F.A., should be able to get standard or restricted for glider tug.
1. Depending on serial number range, and which of the two PA-25 TC's, it "may" be eligible for Standard C of A. The key isn't so much field size, but Density Altitude.
2. Several years ago one of the glider clubs on the east coast had a PA-25-180, and they liked it.
3. There was a string on the Supercub site recently, and Soaring Society of Boulder is still running their PA-18-180, but even the early PA-25's would be significantly heavier on the same wing size as Supercub. And heck, the Air Force Academy is towing with contract PA-18-180's, but based on my experience towing at high D.A.'s in PA-18-180's and a bunch of other stuff, I'd bet that their big, heavy two-seaters would be a bit sporty in the summer. The good performing PA-18-180's seem to be under 1200# empty weight.
4. Many, many years ago there was a PA-25 with 230 hp 0-470 towing at Owl Canyon, and eventually at Rifle, and it was OK. Don't know if the Hutcherson STC for 0-470 is still available, but the O-540 is better for tugging, in my opinion.
5. Some expen$ive A.D.'s to deal with: Wing struts, front spar carry-through, horizontal tail carry-through on the PA-25 Pawnees. These have tended to be pencil-whipped.
6. And for Cayman 44, you might talk to the Pawnee Manager at Owl Canyon Gliderport, not very far north of Erie, www.soarcsa.org website.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

Thanks. cubscout

[Cayman44]

CubScout - Thanks for your thoughts. Yup I do know all the PA-25 235 tow operators on the Colo front Range and have towed in and behind most of them and also am a current PA-18-180 towpilot. This was a question just based on availability of a PA-25 150 already owned airframe. A PA-18 180 empty weight is under 1000 lbs, the PA-25 150 is 1100 lbs, and the PA-25 235 is 1500 lbs. I have never flown a PA-25-180, but with a minimum upgrade to a 180 hp, I was just wondering if its tow performance might be similar enough to the ubiquitous 180 Super Cub to be worth the investment. After researching this and chatting with others, right now, I don't believe the investment would be worth it. The better option would be to sell the Pawnee 150, and make a larger investment in a 235 which as a 235 tuggee, is always my choice as a tow plane and which has a much greater future return for the glider in the back.
7E

[Cayman44]

BTW -I dug into the FAA registry and looked at the listed data on every PA-25 and PA-25 150.
Apparently when the PA-25 235 came out in Oct '62, the remaining PA-25's in the pipeline were renamed PA-25-150's.
I found 7 with O-360's. with many engine variants: A1A, A3A, A1D, and even a TSIO

Also one O-470; one IO-540, and one O-540-B2B5 ( the original factory factory engine).
I am told the STC seems also to be held by Mike Horton. Converting the early 150 model to 180 hp is available through Mike Horton of Lubbock, Texas. The STC allows for the O-320 to be replace with the O-360 A1A.

[cubscout]

Cayman44, no disrespect, but I've NEVER seen a PA-18-180 that actually weighed under 1100#, except maybe Bill Rusk's experimental Javron, and a few seriously stripped down guide planes in AK. This reflects at least a dozen Johnson and Jensen PA-18-180's in my personal experience, and conversations with others. Piper was notoriously optimistic about their empty weights; heck my cubscout 'cub left Lockhaven at 970lbs, just like every other one from that era, regardless of equipment ; and of course, it never weighed that little. And I'd be skeptical of a PA-25-235 actually under 1600#. Steve Pierce and Brian or Steve Pankonin can chime in on this issue, with all the planes that go through their shops.

And re: engines on registry, engine changes frequently/usually aren't picked up there. I was puzzled to learn that my 'cub still has an o-290-135, although that was changed out many years and many owners/re-registrations ago. Not worth the brain damage to go mud wrestling with the Friendly Flying Agency.

And again, always interested in seeing other ways to skin the cat.

Thanks. cubscout