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Thread: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

  1. #21

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    Default Re: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

    WOW WOW WOW That is a beautiful rag wing 8A. I think the Luscombes are highly UNDERRATED.
    Seems everybody wants a Cub or a Champ. Well I have owned all of them and like I said the Luscombe is the pick of the litter. JMOH

  2. #22
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

    I rebuilt a Luscombe several years ago that involved replacing every rivet and every skin. Not as easy as a Cub on the ground but I didn't think it was too bad.
    100_1487.jpg

  3. #23
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by wyandot jim View Post
    WOW WOW WOW That is a beautiful rag wing 8A. I think the Luscombes are highly UNDERRATED.
    Seems everybody wants a Cub or a Champ. Well I have owned all of them and like I said the Luscombe is the pick of the litter. JMOH
    Until you find the corrosion in the spars and areas where steel and aluminum are riveted together.

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

    Well I guess if we're going down that road I'll throw in SB-819, and strut and fork AD's for Piper.

    luscombes are a sweet Airplane, like the Cessna 120/140 models!

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

    For sure a Luscombe is a sweet thing! As is a 120/140! Back in the day those were the planes everybody wanted to get up in to after the Cub. Did everything better than a Cub and was shiney modern metal to boot!

    One of the reasons Luscombes end up with that corrosion overhead is because, lets face it, from the 60s to the 90s, chances are the Luscombe was sitting outside and rotting away, while everybody fell in love, again, for the lightning bolt and cub decal. Same with the shortwings.....hence SB-819. Luscombes and shortwings on some level have had kind of the same life-arc. Fantastic performing planes for their class, appreciated in their day, but suffered through a long dark ages brought on by the delights of longwing rag Pipers and their being taken in out of the cold. Lets also be real, the Luscombes and taildragging shortwings were just a notch or two more demanding on the landing, scaring off many a soul for sure.

    Long live Luscombes, 120/140s, and of course, shortwings! Shared history and cool planes!

  6. #26
    dmark1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by wyandot jim View Post
    Yep A lot of people were learning in Tri Pacers in the 50s-60s. One of the first tri-gear out there.
    As far as learning in the Cub or Champ I also agree. In my case I was training in both a Cub and 150 because the Cub didn't have insurance for student solo. I soled in 9 hrs. in the 150 with 4Hrs. in it and 5 in the Cub. I then bought my 7AC Champ when I had 10 Hrs. This was 1964 and as they say the rest is History.

    FWIW. Since we added the Stewart wing extension/tip our Pacer doesn't want to come down fast.
    I have only flown it a couple hrs. so far in the pattern. The rate of decent at around 65-70 is 500FPM power off and half tanks and me 200#. With or without flaps seems about the same.
    I plan on doing more testing and posting the results later.
    Take off roll with half flaps 40 IAS no wind and 80F on grass is 300' climb @80-85 is 1000-1100FPM. Stall is a mush at 38-40IAS

    That BD-4 must be a great performer with the IO-470. I thought about building a tail wheel model in the late 70s.

    Sorry Jim but I have to disagree. While the J3 and the Champ are great OLD airplanes they bear absolutely NO relationship to flying in todays world. While it is important to learn good basic flying skills most any airplane today requires very little in the way of rudder input. A bit, yes, but nothing to the extent that a J3 or Champ require to fly coordinated. Telling someone to start with a J3 or a Champ is a bit like telling a new driver to start with a Model A with a spark advance and a clutch with no syncros. It just isn't necessary and is more difficult to a brand new student - difficult to the point that they may QUIT and we have lost another new aviation student. Grandfather worship is nice, but really not necessary here. The Tri Pacer is the perfect union between old school and new school (like a Cirrus) in my opinion. While I agree good basic airmanship is necessary to being a well rounded pilot, going back to a J3 or Champ may be a bit too strong. Why not tell the new student to start in a Jenny?

    Please don't take my opinion as "dumping on" the taildragger- I am most assuredly not. I own a Christen Eagle and love flying taildraggers but the added skill needed to fly one is something a brand new pilot might want to avoid initially.

    IMHO. And I am sure I will be flamed for this opinion.
    Last edited by dmark1; 04-11-2017 at 08:52 PM.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

    I'm talking about inner granular corrosion from poor heat treating in the 40s. Pretty bad on the wings I rebuilt.

  8. #28
    Jim Hann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

    I never got to fly with Dad in his Luscombe, it was sold for the down payment on the house Mom is still living in, I have had a ride in one. This was Dad's, actually a Silvaire Luscombe, 1959,Ft. Collins built, all the goodies, C-90, electrical, and flaps. He added the wheel pants when he had it painted, got tired of polishing it after only three months of ownership. Last I knew it was up in New Hampshire but it must be in a barn, nobody has seen it.
    1957 PA-22/20 "Super Pacer" based 1H0
    Lifetime EAA member
    Vintage Aircraft Association member
    Lifetime EAA Chapter 32 member


  9. #29

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    Default Re: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

    Dmark1.
    OK we agree to disagree
    You probably don't want my 20 year old Grandson's opinion.
    He was taught in our 140HP 7GC Champion, and a Pacer. He soloed a PA-18, Pacer, Champ, and Bonanza on his 16 birthday. He now has 450-500hrs tail wheel time and is now PICed in my Starduster TOO, Stearman and close to solo the SNJ-4 and flies the B-55 Baron. He just delivered a New Carbon Cub from Houston to N Miami for a friend.
    Yep learn in the Model A then figure out what an automatic is all about

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

    Yes, taildraggers are very humbling airplanes, especially a J3 on pavement -- to me, anyway, and it might discourage some from learning how to fly, but i think a good and patient instructor could remedy that. Mine did.
    I soloed a J3, but it was on a nice, wide grass strip. Taught me a lot, especially with cross winds. Even a Tripe will bite you in a significant crosswind if you don't keep her lined up with the runway ( Don't ask me how I know). That's why I believe soloing a taildragger is so beneficial. I still didn't master a cub on pavement, but nevertheless it taught me good rudder skills.

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