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Thread: Pa22 Crash

  1. #11
    Jim Hann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pa22 Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Clayton Harper View Post
    Thanks, Brian for the introduction to Kathryn's Report.

    As I looking thought there I saw this. http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2017/0...l-08-2017.html

    If you rebuild an airplane, get more that one person to look the finished plane over.
    This one really set me off. He was a 121 Captain and we had mutual friends. Exactly what you said Clayton, I told everybody who came in the hangar as the Pacer came back together to tell me if they saw ANYTHING that didn't look right. Wiggle controls, tug on things, use the lights and mirrors, I just wanted lots of eyes on it. My IA had his A&P brother look at it too before signing it off. I'm not sorry if this comes off as a rant because I'm mad another family is without a son/brother/uncle/nephew/father, a beautiful old airplane is destroyed, and we lost a fellow aviator.
    1957 PA-22/20 "Super Pacer" based 1H0
    Lifetime EAA member
    Vintage Aircraft Association member
    Lifetime EAA Chapter 32 member


  2. #12
    piperrocks2013
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    Default Re: Pa22 Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hann View Post
    This one really set me off. He was a 121 Captain and we had mutual friends. Exactly what you said Clayton, I told everybody who came in the hangar as the Pacer came back together to tell me if they saw ANYTHING that didn't look right. Wiggle controls, tug on things, use the lights and mirrors, I just wanted lots of eyes on it. My IA had his A&P brother look at it too before signing it off. I'm not sorry if this comes off as a rant because I'm mad another family is without a son/brother/uncle/nephew/father, a beautiful old airplane is destroyed, and we lost a fellow aviator.
    Not a Rant Jim, I'm the only one that does Rants . Seriously well said.


    Jared

  3. #13
    rocket's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pa22 Crash

    This issue has become close to me as I recently had an engine issue that led to a power line event that I lived through. Just wanted to mention the human factors that make us all fallible. The mechanic or pilot that professes perfection is likely to make the next mistake.
    I've spent the last two weeks questioning pilotage decisions and although the NTSB found no obvious issues with the power plant, I have laid awake almost every night wondering what I might have missed forward of the firewall.
    The point I'm aiming for is we all are going to make mistakes, once we acknowledge this, we can begin to make decisions to limit them.
    The aircraft I maintain fly a couple thousands hours each summer in vary challenging conditions, with thousands of lives that I am responsible.
    I've seriously thought about walking away from it all these past weeks. It's one thing do damn near kill ones self but the lives of all the others weighes heavily.
    If I give up though, throw in the towel and walk away, will there be someone else to take over? Will they really care? I'm thinking If there is an issue after I'm done I'll still feel responsible...
    In the end we need to support each other through both the good and the bad; instead of pointing fingers let's look forward and promise to share the ugliness of the past mistakes in a way so we can limit them in the future.





    Rocket

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Pa22 Crash

    Onya Rocket! Well said, particularly the last line!

  5. #15
    Stephen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pa22 Crash

    We lost a local mechanic who hooked up the controls wrong after a restoration. When my buddy was learning to fly he was doing his pre take off check, when it got to controls he wiggled the stick and called out controls. I asked him, "did the controls move in the correct direction", he didn't know. Since that accident of our local mechanic, I always watch and think about the direction of control surfaces movement during pre take off check.
    "You can only tie the record for flying low."

  6. #16
    Clayton Harper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pa22 Crash

    As for mistakes, an old Frontier Capt I flew with once said "Experience is when you have made all of the mistakes twice."

  7. #17
    dmark1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pa22 Crash

    A stupid question.... if the elevator controls were hooked up backwards wouldn't that have prevented rotation as pulling back on the wheel would have driven the nose DOWN? Just trying to figure this out....

    Seems like he would've ended up on his nose with the engine and prop destroyed. Of course I have never flown a Piper Super Cruiser.

  8. #18
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pa22 Crash

    I take off with the trim set for a 3 point take-off, no back stick required. Once airborne in this situation your nose comes up pretty quick so you either push the stick forward or trim the nose down. I normally just get the nose down to a 85mph climb with trim.
    If the elevator cables were reversed in this situation and you pushed the sick forward to get the nose down you are in trouble.

  9. #19

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    Default Re: Pa22 Crash

    Am I the only one that does a flight control check prior to flight? Not necessarily every flight but at least before the first flight of the day even if no maintenance was performed. It has been a long time since I used a checklist but it seems like most had a line about correct and free.

  10. #20
    piperrocks2013
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    Default Re: Pa22 Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff J View Post
    Am I the only one that does a flight control check prior to flight? Not necessarily every flight but at least before the first flight of the day even if no maintenance was performed. It has been a long time since I used a checklist but it seems like most had a line about correct and free.
    Exactly right Jeff. Actually prior to takeoff I do a full control check. Ailerons, flaps both down elevators fully operational. Rudder operation and Break test. It appears the above is not happening. Sadly I see the same accidents happen over and over. Most common ones are

    1. Landing gear forgotten to be extended prior to landing, even if every alarm is going off in the cockpit.
    2. Plane runs out of gas. I have seen few stories in current one of the "right rank syndrome" of someone banking and the engine quits. (NO STEEP TURNS on RIGHT TANK under 1/3 tank!!!!) But it still happens even when the pilot is aware and even Clearly Placarded!

    No matter how much safety measures we put in the same accidents appear to happen over and over

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