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Thread: Possible new project!

  1. #21

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    Default Re: Possible new project!

    Would you happen to have part numbers for the slave cyls. and shuttle valves? i may as well keep an eye out for those parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmoyle View Post
    Here's an image of the dual toe brake assembly on a 1950 Pacer. SN 74-120 using Grove wheels, master cylinders and brakes. It's now sporting the AB 199-62A wheels and dual piston calipers.

  2. #22
    gliderman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new project!

    Where did you move to? I'm in Central Alberta and just finished a rebuild on A 54 tri- pacer
    Shane-o

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Possible new project!

    I'm now in Yorkton, Sask

  4. #24
    Vagabondblues's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new project!

    The shuttle valve is an A22 Hoof valve. I spent over 5 years trying to find them. Save your time KRN aviation has them http://www.krn.com/inventory_search.aspx?pn=A22.

    The slave cylinders are same in design and part number to the master. The cylinders are an old "electro" design and most have deep pitting corrosion in the bore and on the fitting bosses from water in the hydraulic fluid. What ever you find used will need to be sleeved to be made serviceable. As the design is very simple it can easily be reproduced using the masters you may have now. There was a thread on this site dealing with making new and a link to the cylinders made be Grove.

    in my opinion the most scarce part in the dual brakes is the pedals part number 11726-05. It seems like if people do have them they are not planning on letting them go. You may have to buy a complete rudder bar with the pedals to get them. Unfortunately the drawing for the pedal is not in the SWPC drawings but it is in the SWPC Vagabond drawings which makes fabricating the pedals possible.
    Last edited by Vagabondblues; 02-12-2018 at 09:52 PM.

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Possible new project!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabondblues View Post
    The shuttle valve is an A22 Hoof valve. I spent over 5 years trying to find them. Save your time KRN aviation has them http://www.krn.com/inventory_search.aspx?pn=A22.

    The slave cylinders are same in design and part number to the master. The cylinders are an old "electro" design and most have deep pitting corrosion in the bore and on the fitting bosses from water in the hydraulic fluid. What ever you find used will need to be sleeved to be made serviceable. As the design is very simple it can easily be reproduced using the masters you may have now. There was a thread on this site dealing with making new and a link to the cylinders made be Grove.

    in my opinion the most scarce part in the dual brakes is the pedals part number 11726-05. It seems like if people do have them they are not planning on letting them go. You may have to buy a complete rudder bar with the pedals to get them. Unfortunately the drawing for the pedal is not in the SWPC drawings but it is in the SWPC Vagabond drawings which makes fabricating the pedals possible.
    thanks for the info! those hoof valves look like the ones in the early king airs...I suppose the dual brake setup was an optional on the early a/c?

  6. #26
    mmoyle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new project!

    When I was rebuilding my fuselage...busted one of the A22 valves...found a replacement on eBay. I believe you should be able to duplicate the toe brake pedals and add the hinge tabs to the original rudder pedals on the right side.. Iíve never seen the PA20 dual toe brake parts come up for sale anywhere...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  7. #27
    Jim Hann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new project!

    My couple of cents. I have the Stewart tips with VGs on my 22/20 and have been giving flight training in a 115 Pacer with droop tips, I don't see a big difference in aileron authority during takeoff and landing. The difference is mine will fly slower with the VGs. As for aesthetics, I do like the stock tips but that ship has sailed in your case. My personal visual preference is: stock, Stewart, droop in that order. I haven't seen the Crosswind tips in person so I don't know what they look like. My biggest dislike about the droop tips is they are fiberglass, the other two options are all fabric. I didn't install the tips (purchased a rebuilt set of wings) but I have some pictures of them uncovered in my recover thread, search for "N7743D is a project." I also have my old wings (that will work on a PA-20) sitting in St. Louis, MO, USA if you want them, they need to be rebuilt/recovered.

    Brakes, how tall are you? The 115 Pacer had the Williams toe brake kit which eats up several inches of legroom, a valuable commodity in these birds. My airplane has the Univair dual brakes as part of the landing gear conversion, better but it does still take up a little bit of legroom. As a CFI I taught in airplanes with no brakes on the right side, it is doable but your CFI may have a different opinion.

    Good luck with the project!


    Sent from my iPad using ShortWingPipers.Org
    1957 PA-22/20 "Super Pacer" based 1H0
    Lifetime EAA member
    Vintage Aircraft Association member
    Lifetime EAA Chapter 32 member


  8. #28
    Pacer42Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new project!

    My Pacer had the drooped tips installed when I purchased it, so I don't know how a Pacer without them flies. I have good aileron authority down to stall speed and I also think my Pacer has a pretty good cruise speed (160 HP, 58" pitch, with wheel pants, turning 2,500 RPM around 6,000 feet ALT shows about 117 kts. true on my Aspen display). All jets pretty much have winglets to get rid of vortexes, I think the drooped tips work in the same manner.

    As far as the looks, I think it is great that everyone has a different taste, so we don't all fly the exact same airplane. I like the looks of the drooped tips on my Pacer.

    Juergen
    Pacer N3342Z

  9. #29

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    Default Re: Possible new project!

    Quote Originally Posted by wbaad View Post
    Hi all,
    im new to this forum and have a few questions. Im not overly experienced with these aircraft though i have done annuals and repairs for a friend with a pa-22 in the past.
    I'm located in canada and have my AME M1/M2 (full rating for you yanks!)

    I have the opportunity to pick up a basket case PA22/20 project (cheap) and looking for insight on how to go about it, or whether or not its worth it. The aircraft had a mishap some time ago and is missing the original wings and engine, but does come with a paperless o-320 (rolls eyes). the hydrasorb mounts/seat rail are badly broken, and the rear tail tubing bent, so not sure what else has been twisted, however there is another bare frame that looks to be in decent shape with no real damage to speak of.
    the bent airframe is listed and registered as a 1955 pa-22-150, even though it is in tailwheel config. also has the round right rear window.

    The spare fuselage has the round window as well, but appears to be an original pa-20 fuselage. not sure if there are papers and a data plate for that one yet...

    Anyways, is there a way to tell which year/model the frames were delivered as? is there a stamp anywhere on the tube frame to help?

    worst case i guess it could go experimental, but would prefer to build certified.

    I don't currently own this, just something Im looking at.

    thanks for the help!
    I have a 50 pacer pa20 that I'd sell its complete minus engine and prop. Had a strike years ago but it's all there. Lots of good parts on her.

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Possible new project!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hann View Post
    My couple of cents. I have the Stewart tips with VGs on my 22/20 and have been giving flight training in a 115 Pacer with droop tips, I don't see a big difference in aileron authority during takeoff and landing. The difference is mine will fly slower with the VGs. As for aesthetics, I do like the stock tips but that ship has sailed in your case. My personal visual preference is: stock, Stewart, droop in that order. I haven't seen the Crosswind tips in person so I don't know what they look like. My biggest dislike about the droop tips is they are fiberglass, the other two options are all fabric. I didn't install the tips (purchased a rebuilt set of wings) but I have some pictures of them uncovered in my recover thread, search for "N7743D is a project." I also have my old wings (that will work on a PA-20) sitting in St. Louis, MO, USA if you want them, they need to be rebuilt/recovered.

    Brakes, how tall are you? The 115 Pacer had the Williams toe brake kit which eats up several inches of legroom, a valuable commodity in these birds. My airplane has the Univair dual brakes as part of the landing gear conversion, better but it does still take up a little bit of legroom. As a CFI I taught in airplanes with no brakes on the right side, it is doable but your CFI may have a different opinion.

    Good luck with the project!


    Sent from my iPad using ShortWingPipers.Org
    i am 5í7Ē so closer pedals would help, but Iíll see what the instructors say. They are great guys with a ton of experience so I think they would make it work...

    as another question, does anybody have a pa-20 parts catalog and flight manual/maintenance manual copy? I have some but are PA-22...

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