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Thread: Let's talk propellers

  1. #1
    tjlebaron's Avatar
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    Default Let's talk propellers

    I have PA-22-150 with a 58 pitch prop and have be been a bit disappointed with the cruise speed. Best I can tell I'm getting around 105 mph at 2350. I have a couple other props one being another 58 and the other a 57. I've been thinking about getting one repitched to a 61 but figure there is a reason folks have repitched them to 58 and 57. I understand the decrease in climb with the 61 but operate primarily out of hard surface long runways with one or two onboard.

    1) Any thoughts about the 61 pitch?
    2) Any recommended prop shops in the northeast?

    Thanks,

    Tim from VA

  2. #2
    andya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk propellers

    I had a 150 hp on a PA-22/20 that I tried a 61 on, it was a little sluggish coming out of a grass strip, compared to a 58 it was longer take off on hard surface as well, climb rate suffers a little. It picked up 3-4 mph in full power cruise and attainable rpm was lower. I settled on a 60" pitch after trying the 61" I started with a 58" and it, like yours was a little slower and that's the reason I experimented. The 60" worked fine as long as I was staying out of short strips or mountain peaks
    "Progress is our most important problem"

  3. #3
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk propellers

    What is you static rpm? My Pacer and wife's Tri-Pacer cruised 110-115 mph at 2450 with a 58" pitched prop.

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Let's talk propellers

    I've been curious about prop pitch too, since it 'seems everyone' gears shorter than my original 61" on my PA-22-150. Had chalked it up to this being a predominantly conventional gear - Pacer or 22/20 group. I am completely happy with my performance. It'll smoke any 172 in every performance category. Now, with crooked wheel pants my cruise speed is up ~ 5 mph too. 2400 RPM gets me a solid 117 mph and is pushing 120. Straight and level at 3,000' at 2700 RPM I see 132 to 135 mph. The needle bounces around some. I get 1,000 to 1,200 fpm at 84 mph indicated right off the deck, (at sea level - 12' MSL) rotating at 70 mph staying in ground effect to 84 then pulling up. My plane weighs 1139 empty and when I'm measuring these numbers, I'm by myself with full tanks. Me and my gear are less than 180 pounds. I guess those folks geared shorter are working at higher altitudes and in mountains or they wouldn't need so much climb power. So many variables in all of this, someday it would be nice to have data loggers to pull stats, airspeed, RPM, MP, altitude, AoA, etc., so to compare with others more accurately.

  5. #5
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk propellers

    Quote Originally Posted by tjlebaron View Post
    I have PA-22-150 with a 58 pitch prop and have be been a bit disappointed with the cruise speed. Best I can tell I'm getting around 105 mph at 2350. I have a couple other props one being another 58 and the other a 57. I've been thinking about getting one repitched to a 61 but figure there is a reason folks have repitched them to 58 and 57. I understand the decrease in climb with the 61 but operate primarily out of hard surface long runways with one or two onboard.

    Tim from VA


    2350rpm is not 75% power most manufactures use to quote airspeed.
    Lycoming 75% power occurs at 2450 rpm at sea level. For every 1000’ above sea level add 25 rpm. i.e. at 4000’, 75% power would be 2550 rpm.

    At 75% power my true airspeed is about 115 mph. Indicated is 112 at 1000’ msl.
    O-320 150 58” prop.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Gilbert Pierce; 12-25-2017 at 12:52 PM.

  6. #6
    Stephen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk propellers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbert Pierce View Post
    2350rpm is not 75% power most manufactures use to quote airspeed.
    Lycoming 75% power occurs at 2450 rpm at sea level. For every 1000’ above sea level add 25 rpm. i.e. at 4000’, 75% power would be 2550 rpm.

    At 75% power my true airspeed is about 115 mph. Indicated is 112 at 1000’ msl.
    O-320 150 58” prop.
    For variation, my Pacer with 29 BW's, 82-44 prop and exposed gear averaged 107 mph on Triangle course. My Bushmaster averages 103 on a triangle course. All tests were done at sealevel usings 2450 rpm with a newish digital tach, using 2 gps's.
    "You can only tie the record for flying low."

  7. #7
    Pacer42Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk propellers

    Quote Originally Posted by tjlebaron View Post
    I have PA-22-150 with a 58 pitch prop and have be been a bit disappointed with the cruise speed. Best I can tell I'm getting around 105 mph at 2350. I have a couple other props one being another 58 and the other a 57. I've been thinking about getting one repitched to a 61 but figure there is a reason folks have repitched them to 58 and 57. I understand the decrease in climb with the 61 but operate primarily out of hard surface long runways with one or two onboard.

    1) Any thoughts about the 61 pitch?
    2) Any recommended prop shops in the northeast?

    Thanks,

    Tim from VA
    Tim, speed is also a matter of how clean your airplane is. I noticed your Tripe doesn't have wheel pants. How about fairings between the gear legs and the fuselage, strut fairings, etc. I also added gap seals between the rudder and vertical stabilizer and the elevator and horizontal stabilizer. You mentioned 105 MPH at 2350 RPM. Our O-320s will run happily at 2500 RPM all day, but of course you will convert gas (money) into speed.
    I have a 160 HP O-320 with a 58" pitch on my Pacer. I like the 58" pitch because of the good climb I get and short field performance (and it does get hot and humid here in VA in the summer). I see 107 to 108 knots indicated at 2500 RPM between 5,000 and 8,000 feet with the 58" prop. I am also in VA based at OKV, maybe we can meet some day and you can look over my Pacer.

    As far as a prop shop, I had my prop refurbished at Sensenich propeller service at Lancaster (PA) airport. They did a very good job for me.

    Juergen
    Pacer N3342Z

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Let's talk propellers

    Not really happy with my 61” pitch prop. Last week generated these numbers with my 150 hp PA-22/20 using 61” & 54” props. Flights were about 40 min apart with same atmospheric conditions. 74F. DA 1120’

    61”. 54”
    Static rpm. 2200. 2400
    Takeoff rpm
    (30 mph). 2275. 2500

    80 mph climb
    Rpm. 2400. 2500
    Fpm up. 800. 1000

    1000’ Full throttle
    Rpm. 2500. 2700
    IAS. 118. 125

    1000’ 24 x 2400
    IAS. 115. 110

    The numbers aren’t the whole story. Acceleration is definitely stronger and plane gets off the ground shorter and sooner with the lower pitch prop. My prop is at a prop shop being repitched to 58” this week.

    Don Broussard

  9. #9
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk propellers

    One thing to realize as well is that tachs are known for being off and props tend to flatten out over time from what is stamped on the prop hub.

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Let's talk propellers

    Totally agree with your statement that tach errors are common. Checked mine with a Hartzell Vue-Thru recently and it was within 20 rpm of indicated.

    Don Broussard

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