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Thread: Streched Pacer Frame Question

  1. #11
    KSG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streched Pacer Frame Question

    Local FSDO Chicago said they use the 51% rule as written, it's the law. Interesting how some seem to disregard their own rules.

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Streched Pacer Frame Question

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Piper-...dXvwxF&vxp=mtr Finding quite a few frames, and i know the biggest issue is rust, but what else should a person be looking at. I havent wasted any of this ones owners time, but it looks like rivets are used everywhere?

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Streched Pacer Frame Question

    http://www.yakimaaerosport.com/wp-co...2003_05_07.pdf this plane has a IO375 in it now, must be hauling a pretty hefty load.

  4. #14
    Stephen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streched Pacer Frame Question

    Rust in the lower longerons can be an issue. But, if you are cutting apart the fuselage replacing tubing should not be a big deal. I replaced most of one of my lower longerons in my project because it had an old repair that I wanted to eliminate. I found no internal rust in my 1957 fuselage.
    "You can only tie the record for flying low."

  5. #15
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streched Pacer Frame Question

    http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum...rame-Corrosion

    Look in the parts manual and drawing CD but I believe the 55 model was the start of the split seats and later the panel was moved an inch forward.

  6. #16
    Southern Aero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streched Pacer Frame Question

    Quote Originally Posted by KSG View Post
    Local FSDO Chicago said they use the 51% rule as written, it's the law. Interesting how some seem to disregard their own rules.
    Its the LAW?? KGB............ KSG, you ever read the whole thing?? Its an Advisory Circular...... Its really interesting how some FSDO and DARs choose to interpret the AC20-27.............. It can be quite ambiguous concerning the use of surplus, military, previously certificated parts. I don't believe the original intent of this was kill off the likes of the stretched Pacer or the Breezy but to stop someone from just throwing together a bunch of salvaged parts and calling it an Experimental AB. That makes sense. Modifying existing designs is how airplanes have always evolved. Some inspectors are more realistic and give partial credit on the fuselage build............ There is more "educational and recreational value" in taking years dissecting and modifying an old derelict (sad) PA 20 or TP and morphing it into a totally different airplane with a totally different mission than taking two weeks off work, pulling a few rivets and flying your airplane home.

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Streched Pacer Frame Question

    Stephen, supercub wings are either 13 rib or 16 ribs, if the spar is reinforced, and i realize im just asking an opinion, what would be your take on a 13 rib wing. the 3 ribs were added to supercub wings for increased speed but i dont believe for load? my own wing is a 13 rib. i see where some good trammel wires and beefy spares will do most of the work carrying the load.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Streched Pacer Frame Question

    Extra ribs are due to increased load because, increased speed causes increased loads. Actually the loads increase by the square of the increased speed. The Bushmaster has increased speeds compared to a SC and decreased speeds compared to a Pacer. My cruised speed dropped 2.5 mph. But, the significant change was the reduction in the red line.

    I can't remember how many ribs are in the Bmaster but I believe there are more than the SC. The plans add a double outboard compression strut, double outboad wires, full span leading edge D section and about 4' of front and rear spar reinforcing. I've seen film of the wing load tests for this STC and they exceed the FAA load requirements by a lot. These wings are very strong. Make sure you install a chrome moly rear lift strut.

    I know some experimental Bmaster projects do little more than use a standard SC wing with little or no added strengthening. But, remember the Bmaster has a higher red line than a SC and a 2100 lb. GW. A long time employee at Cub Crafters built a Bmaster using standard SC wings years ago now he will not fly it on windy days because of the increased loads and plans to scrap it when he is done flying.
    Last edited by Stephen; 04-07-2018 at 01:41 PM.
    "You can only tie the record for flying low."

  9. #19

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    Default Re: Streched Pacer Frame Question

    all those would add a lot of strength without much of a weight penalty. sortve got a handle on those allready. this helps because a person tries to catch as much as he can so you dont have to say, i wish i would have done that. Did your red line drop over 15-20mph?

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Streched Pacer Frame Question

    Quote Originally Posted by lycoming lou View Post
    all those would add a lot of strength without much of a weight penalty. sortve got a handle on those allready. this helps because a person tries to catch as much as he can so you dont have to say, i wish i would have done that. Did your red line drop over 15-20mph?

    The red line decreased about 20 mph and the total weight increase for the project was about 80 lbs.
    "You can only tie the record for flying low."

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