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Thread: Sensenich W80CM8 a worthy alternative to Borer 80"?

  1. #11
    rocket's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sensenich W80CM8 a worthy alternative to Borer 80"?

    So I just realized something: this new Sensenitch prop is not new at all. It is their original prop dressed in a glass/carbon sheath.


    This is a personal pet peeve of mine.


    This is what sucks about legacy providers.


    In another life I played with a couple gentlemen who specialized in propeller design. I won't bore you with the details of many late night discussions of propellor theory over shots of vodka but propeller efficiency is all about length and optimizing performance by modifying the center of pressure via cord distribution allowing aerodynamic twisting moment to change pitch accordingly. Did I mention the Vodka?


    Take a look at the Catto... Whirlwind... not the same old blade shape.


    I believe that technology will always drive the strength of aviation into a future of growth, be it a healthy pilot community or sales for those who dare.


    Shame on another legacy provider to give us the same product wrapped in carbon and a pretty paint job.


    Rocket

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Sensenich W80CM8 a worthy alternative to Borer 80"?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket View Post
    Shame on another legacy provider to give us the same product wrapped in carbon and a pretty paint job.
    Yes, and while we are at it shame on Catto and Whirlwind for giving us new products that don't have type certification. Their new technology is useless to us if we aren't allowed to screw them on to our airplanes.

    The problem here isn't the manufacturers, legacy or newer. As far as I can tell they are all trying to be successful by offering products in very specialized markets. Since none of them are offering the desired product, a more efficient certified propeller, it's a good guess that none of them have been able to justify the investment needed. The propellers that Sensenich is offering for airboats have some interesting shapes (http://www.sensenich.com/product-category/airboat/). So why don't they offer new technology for our aircraft? My guess is the cost of certification vs the number of props they estimate they could sell.

    I think the real problem is the regulations under which we have to fly/maintain these airplanes.

    Tim

  3. #13
    rocket's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sensenich W80CM8 a worthy alternative to Borer 80"?

    Tim,

    There is nothing wrong, well much, with the flying and maintaining regulations. I believe we have the most freedom of any country in that regard.

    I do agree that the regulations regarding manufacturing of new products is the problem.


    As a rule I usually only think out comments like the one I made above, sometimes type them out, but almost always delete them. I not a fan of complaining without first having a solution to offer up. I should delete this one too


    I think our legacy providers have all the means to tackle the FAA. Instead I fear they use their clout to tackle competition. The FAA knows nothing about making propellers or engines or avionics and I am sure they have to go to those who do. I have to service a couple Garett Otters and before I touch them my first call is to our Honeywel rep. Now if I called Ben about a PT6 he might tell me they are junk because he wants All the Otters to have the Gerett burner. I specifically recall reading about Cessna lobbying to keep New AN -2 aircraft from being imported to America. Something about inferior hardware, on an aircraft and power plant that had proven itself for over fifty years.


    I think Sensenitch blew it when they didn't off to ether team up or purchase outright the Catto product; or Hartzell or whoever.


    The key value of American business is in innovation and growth. When we end up with stifling them to protect legacy interest it will be those willing to team up that win.


    Rocket


  4. #14
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    Default Re: Sensenich W80CM8 a worthy alternative to Borer 80"?

    So, to add somebody else's 2 cents to the melee; I talked to a guy at the Valdez flyin who is running this prop on a 180hp cub. He stated that he preferred this prop over a Cargo because he got similar takeoff performance but better cruise speed out of the Sensenich.
    Again this is purely anecdotal but something to tuck under your hat just the same.

    Names where omitted to protect the guilty

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Jason Perkins

  5. #15

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    Default Re: Sensenich W80CM8 a worthy alternative to Borer 80"?

    I believe it's shame on the FAA for making new/better products so difficult to certify. Aeromatic propellers come to mind? The automotive world is light years ahead of certificated aviation because of the crazy costs/requirements to make something better in aviation.

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Sensenich W80CM8 a worthy alternative to Borer 80"?

    Rocket,
    Well I'm glad you did post your thoughts this time. I think it's important for the future of flying that we talk about this stuff.

    One point is that I've worked on FAA certification projects for a legacy provider, and tackling the FAA was not at all how it went. It was a huge amount of work. Any ignorance of the subject matter only made them less comfortable to approve anything. So you end up doing analysis and/or testing that really isn't needed but they want to see it. Maybe your experience has been different?

    When it comes to the legacy players using the regulations to stifle competition I agree that's a problem. And it's not unique to this industry. You'll find examples anywhere that has significant government regulation. Great example I read about recently was with Uber. For years now they have fought taxi regulations in city after city to be able to offer an alternative that many customers prefer to traditional taxi cab service. But now that Uber has clout they are supporting new regulations in certain cities that would limit transportation services to large fleet providers, i.e. Uber. This is designed to keep smaller start-ups from out-innovating the innovator. So this happens all the time when a firm reaches a dominant position. But if you take away the regulation you take away the opportunity to play this game. In your example, Cessna would have no choice but to compete head to head with the AN-2.

    If regulation is stifling innovation, I don't understand how teaming helps in this situation. It doesn't change the cost of certifying a new product, correct? So how does it help?

    Tim

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Sensenich W80CM8 a worthy alternative to Borer 80"?

    Anyone have an update on this prop? Anyone have one installed legally on a shortwing?

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Sensenich W80CM8 a worthy alternative to Borer 80"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrpants View Post
    Anyone have an update on this prop? Anyone have one installed legally on a shortwing?
    Working on it. Will update once its flying. And yes its STC'd with Eddie Trimmer's stc SA02484AK.1537032601114~2.jpg

    Sent from my SM-G930V using ShortWingPipers.Org mobile app
    Jason Perkins

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