Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

[pilot]

Has anyone ever set up a pacer/other shortwing with reflex flaps? I did a few searches on here and never found anything conclusive so I thought I would ask. It certainly would not be impossible to allow a few degrees of reflex, maybe 5 or so.

Also, I have read about the possibility of having a three-notch flap ratchet or perhaps a ratchet that allows a few degrees more than 40 on the highest setting, just wondering what kind of performance changes someone may have seen if this was done - perhaps by an un-named friend.......

[redbarron55]

With the Clark Y airfoil (basically) and the short span of the flaps I doubt it makes a lot of difference either way.

[dgapilot]

Stories from back in the 50s and 60s, quite a few guys rigged some reflex into the flaps but ended up with bent or cracked rear spars. I can’t say these stories are true, and have never done an analysis that would support the alleged damage, just putting it out there to consider.


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[Stephen]

With the Clark Y airfoil (basically) and the short span of the flaps I doubt it makes a lot of difference either way.

I agree, Maules and Murphy Rebel's use reflex flaps with only minor effect. Some pilots report no noticeable change. Pacer flaps are small and the potential effect would be minimal.

I added a third notch to my Pacer's a few years ago but, removed it recently because I wasn't using it. I use my 10 degree notch as a speed brake and to increase handling at lower speeds downwind. I use full flaps for all my landing once I am within gliding distance. (And, of course I land 3 point....sorry rb55..I could'nt resist) I found no need for a middle range flap.

[redbarron55]

I always used the flaps more for trim to speed in the pattern as anything else.
not only that they help put the nose down at the Wheel landing point.
If I remember correctly I slowed to 80 (flap speed) on down wind, Pulled the first notch and that would pretty much hold 80. the second notch on base and then the last notch on final which would result in a little nose down to be held back with back pressure.
As it works out this is just about the right amount of forward trim for a proper wheel landing as the good Lord intended.
When you "roll up on the mains it will just drive down the runway with little attention.
Again as I remember, but then I forget a lot these days.
The flaps are relatively useless for anything other than a little pitch change and some drag.
As to helping landing at least they don't interfere with a good healthy slip like the flaps on a Cessna might.
This brings up an important point about my preference for wheel landings. You can keep the speed up so that a healthy slip, uncoordinated, close to the ground is not as hazardous, and the slip can be kicked out and a wheel landing commenced straightaway without bleeding off speed for the three point.
As an afterthought that wing down slip can he carried to a wing low landing in a crosswind, still on the mains. of course

End of paid advertisement, brought to you by the Wheel Landing Association of America (WLAA).

[Stephen]

I always used the flaps more for trim to speed in the pattern as anything else.
not only that they help put the nose down at the Wheel landing point.
If I remember correctly I slowed to 80 (flap speed) on down wind, Pulled the first notch and that would pretty much hold 80. the second notch on base and then the last notch on final which would result in a little nose down to be held back with back pressure.
As it works out this is just about the right amount of forward trim for a proper wheel landing as the good Lord intended.
When you "roll up on the mains it will just drive down the runway with little attention.
Again as I remember, but then I forget a lot these days.
The flaps are relatively useless for anything other than a little pitch change and some drag.
As to helping landing at least they don't interfere with a good healthy slip like the flaps on a Cessna might.
This brings up an important point about my preference for wheel landings. You can keep the speed up so that a healthy slip, uncoordinated, close to the ground is not as hazardous, and the slip can be kicked out and a wheel landing commenced straightaway without bleeding off speed for the three point.
As an afterthought that wing down slip can he carried to a wing low landing in a crosswind, still on the mains. of course

End of paid advertisement, brought to you by the Wheel Landing Association of America (WLAA).

I want my refund of my dues in the WLAA.

[Steve Pierce]

It is easy to file another notch in the flap ratchet for a center position. I use it in the mountains in my Super Cub for a cruise climb. I think you would need a longer ratchet for more degrees of flaps. I quess we need a shorter version of the Performance flaps. Been installing these on Super Cubs.
IMG_20180919_120058.jpg

[Stephen]

It is easy to file another notch in the flap ratchet for a center position. I use it in the mountains in my Super Cub for a cruise climb. I think you would need a longer ratchet for more degrees of flaps. I quess we need a shorter version of the Performance flaps. Been installing these on Super Cubs.
IMG_20180919_120058.jpg

When will we be able to install these on Pacers?

[Gilbert Pierce]

When will we be able to install these on Pavers?

Just do it.

[Subsonic]

Just do it.

Awesome topic!

Just curious about what y'all think increased flap drag (more flaps) gets you, that you need so much? Slower landings and decreased stall speed? Please answer just this question.

IMO, It seems to me that all of these different wing mods involve a trade - you give up something else, except maybe the addition of more efficient wingtips and a set of micro VG's...few others seem to be without a down side, like slower cruise speeds, more drag, higher fuel consumption rates, etc.

If you get more flaps, and slower landings you end up losing aileron authority down low, so those need to get bigger too.

If the goal with these Hershey bar wings is an increased total dynamic envelope, which includes higher cruise speeds in addition to all the increased low speed improvements in lift and controllability, you're approaching a completely new design if you do more than just mod the wingtips. All opinions and comments welcome.

-Subsonic
P.S. These wing mod discussions always suck me in...