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Thread: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

  1. #11

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    Default Re: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

    For me the trick on the flaps is that the change in the trim speed makes the airplane easier to fly.
    If you trim for 80 with one notch of flaps the airplane (as I remember) will be trimmed right for landing on full flaps and be correct for take off too.
    I can't remember if there are three or tow positions, but as to the actual added lift it would be marginal at best.
    Popping full flaps on take off will get the AC off the ground quickly and flaps settle the AC and make it more stable since the AOA is greater at the flaps than hte tips by a larger degree.

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

    I had a lot of slack in the flap actuator cable which was easily adjusted at the turnbuckle behind the rear bulkhead. I adjusted it to remove slack while keeping the bellcranks touching the stops. I suppose due to the age/wear of the whole system I should be happy with the 18* in the first notch and about 38* in the second. It is 20 and 40 until you put a slight hand pressure on the flap.

  3. #13
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    When will we be able to install these on Pacers?
    Cost to certify was in excess of $100K and the PA18 certified version are $8500 plus another $500 in crating and shipping from Alaska. They do create lift instead of drag and have no change in pitch in the initial flight test I did with a nice flat approach.

  4. #14
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Subsonic View Post
    Awesome topic!

    Just curious about what y'all think increased flap drag (more flaps) gets you, that you need so much? Slower landings and decreased stall speed? Please answer just this question.

    IMO, It seems to me that all of these different wing mods involve a trade - you give up something else, except maybe the addition of more efficient wingtips and a set of micro VG's...few others seem to be without a down side, like slower cruise speeds, more drag, higher fuel consumption rates, etc.

    If you get more flaps, and slower landings you end up losing aileron authority down low, so those need to get bigger too.

    If the goal with these Hershey bar wings is an increased total dynamic envelope, which includes higher cruise speeds in addition to all the increased low speed improvements in lift and controllability, you're approaching a completely new design if you do more than just mod the wingtips. All opinions and comments welcome.

    -Subsonic
    P.S. These wing mod discussions always suck me in...
    Different wind conditions different results. Pacer doesn't have enough aileron in a lot of crosswinds already. The extreme experimental STOL guys are using spoilers for roll control in really slow airplanes with slats, big flaps and crazy shock absorbing mechanisms for the landing gear meaning more weight and bigger engines to get it all off the ground. The Dakota Cub Super 20 had a slotted wing that was squared off with the stock length aileron moved out to the tip and the flap extended to take up the extra space. It had excellent aileron authority in Texas spring crosswinds and got into the same places I can get a Super Cub. The only compromise in it I saw was money.

  5. #15
    Subsonic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Different wind conditions different results. Pacer doesn't have enough aileron in a lot of crosswinds already. The extreme experimental STOL guys are using spoilers for roll control in really slow airplanes with slats, big flaps and crazy shock absorbing mechanisms for the landing gear meaning more weight and bigger engines to get it all off the ground. The Dakota Cub Super 20 had a slotted wing that was squared off with the stock length aileron moved out to the tip and the flap extended to take up the extra space. It had excellent aileron authority in Texas spring crosswinds and got into the same places I can get a Super Cub. The only compromise in it I saw was money.
    $9000 is pretty significant. If you also put on some nice squared off wingtips and extended your ailerons, you probably spend that much again. Might be reasonable though in the grand scheme of things when one considers initial purchase price of a Pacer or Tri-pacer is the best bargain around. One might just add those options into the plan during wing recover, especially if you gain lot a low-speed performance and don’t lose anything on the top end.

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

    Mine has Stewart tips and I can see where more aileron would be nice as we have once already had it against the stops. Either extending the aileron out one bay with the Stewart tip mod in place or moving the existing aileron out one bay and extending the flap would be possible. We have not "needed" more flap though.

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

    It might be cheaper the modify the Pacer by taking the gas caps off and running a Maul under them.

  8. #18

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    Default Re: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

    Quote Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
    It might be cheaper the modify the Pacer by taking the gas caps off and running a Maul under them.
    Looky here, you aren't helping things at all. I just sold my Maule project in anticipation of how great the pacer is going to be

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

    Quote Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
    It might be cheaper the modify the Pacer by taking the gas caps off and running a Maul under them.
    Funny.

    But, Maules are too heavy to compete with a Pacer.
    "You can only tie the record for flying low."

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Flap ratchet positions, reflex flaps option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    Funny.

    But, Maules are too heavy to compete with a Pacer.
    what he said...

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