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Thread: Cell phones in your ShortWing

  1. #1
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Cell phones in your ShortWing

    While reading the installation instructions for my GDL82 ADSB-Out I came across this �� . I know no one does this. Before take-off be sure to make the necessary announcement to turn off your passengers cell phone.

    CAUTION
    THE USE OF GROUND-BASED CELLULAR TELEPHONES, WHILE AIRCRAFT ARE AIRBORNE, IS PROHIBITED BY FCC RULES. DUE TO THE POTENTIAL INTERFERENCE WITH ON-BOARD SYSTEMS, THE USE OF GROUND-BASED CELL PHONES, WHILE THE AIRCRAFT IS ON THE GROUND, IS SUBJECT TO FAA REGULATION 14 CFR ß91.21. FCC REGULATION 47 CFR ß22.925 PROHIBITS AIRBORNE OPERATION OF GROUND BASED CELLULAR TELEPHONES. WHEN ANY AIRCRAFT LEAVES THE GROUND, ALL GROUND-BASED CELLULAR TELEPHONES ON BOARD THAT AIRCRAFT MUST BE TURNED OFF. GROUND-BASED CELL PHONES THAT ARE ON, EVEN IN A MONITORING STATE, CAN DISRUPT GPS/SBAS PERFORMANCE.
    Last edited by Gilbert Pierce; 11-04-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  2. #2
    mmoyle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell phones in your ShortWing

    The FCC doesnít want cell phone used because an airborne cell phone signals bounce off multiple cell towers. NASA says cell phones may decrease the accuracy of a GPS navigation systems....but canít prove itís caused an accident. There are more than a few countries that do allow the use of cell phones in flight.
    .....headsets, Bose and Lightspeed have blue tooth to the phone...and since cell towers are so few and far between up here..

    In Rural Alaska most airtaxi services use VHF radios to communicate with folks on the ground...and are essential for search and rescue...many are tossing the VHF radio and using their cell phones.. I had a permanently installed in VHF in my Pacer...it didnít go back in after rebuild. Will use a hand held VHF if I find the need. And some say...over 3500 feet AGL...cell phones donít get a signal.


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  3. #3
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell phones in your ShortWing

    US cell towers are oriented toward a horizonral plane to discourage cell phone use in the air. In Canada it’s legal and I have been told their cell antennas radiate upwards as well as horizontal. I have noticed flying in Canada you have much better coverage at altitude.

    I also read a study that said the multiple cell tower response and overloading as a result of airborne cell phone use never materialized.

    I am not worried about the FCC. They need focus their resources on robo calls and spoofed phone numbers.

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Cell phones in your ShortWing

    I have witnessed a cellphone cause interference with desktop computers. Mostly audible noises over the speakers when the phone tries to ping a tower but occasionally affecting the screen so it is plausible they could cause interference in an airplane. I think Mythbusters did an episode on it and decided interference was unlikely.

    I noticed on my last x-country flight I didn’t have a signal in 3 different areas. I was flying at 4500 ft. I have made that trip as high as 7500 ft without noticing signal loss but I hadn’t ever mounted my phone and kept the flying app up for the entire flight before either. I have Bluetooth capable headsets so I have talked on the phone and used the Bluetooth to listen to music while flying. It’s kind of nice to be able to do it.

    As for the legalities, it is up to the person using the product to use it legally. There are many products out there that are sold without restrictions and can easily be used to break one law or another. No one in here ever exceeds the posted speed limit, right?
    "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement." - Fred Brooks

  5. #5
    KodiakFlyer
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    Default Re: Cell phones in your ShortWing

    Cellular phone use in aircraft has long been a popular topic of discussion, debate and opinion. Although not a spark chasing avionics type, I am very familiar with many who are technically competent to address whether or not our telephones are "safe" to use while airborne. The standard answer is usually along these lines... their use in other than airplane mode while airborne is simply contrary to 14 CFR 91.21 during IFR flight and when the pilot determines that it may be unsafe to use personal electronic devices while airborne (SIC).

    FAA AC 91.21-1D is helpful to understand the situation more fully. Here is an excerpt from the AC: "Section 91.21 was established because of the potential for portable electronic devices (PED) to interfere with aircraft navigation or communication systems, and prohibits the operation of PEDs not installed aboard U.S.-registered civil aircraft while operating under instrument flight rules (IFR). Section 91.21 permits the use of specified PEDs and other devices the operator of the aircraft has determined will not interfere with the safe operation of the aircraft."

    And we must not forget the iPads, NEXUS 7's and many other devices used every day by untold numbers of pilots, while flying IFR and VFR day and night that oftentimes also have cell phone capability. Regulatory compliance matters aside... I can tell you that SAR pilots will check Celluar Forensics early in their search planning because they have proven to be very helpful in locating downed aircraft, especially in the mountains of the Western US.
    Last edited by KodiakFlyer; 11-05-2018 at 04:03 AM.

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Cell phones in your ShortWing

    The question isn't really about the FAA or the aircraft. The issue is:

    ß22.925 Prohibition on airborne operation of cellular telephones.

    Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such aircraft are airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground, all cellular telephones on board that aircraft must be turned off. The following notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone installed in any aircraft:

    “The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could result in suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to FAA regulations.”


    I had never looked it up before. We are required to follow FCC rules as much as we follow FAA rules and this one isn't vague at all. Like many government rules, I suspect the technology has advanced enough that it may not be pertinent anymore. Back when this went into effect I could listen to people's cell phone conversations on a cheap radio shack scanner. For the kind of flying that I do most of the time, I figure it isn't any different than being on a hill or tall structure.
    "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement." - Fred Brooks

  7. #7
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell phones in your ShortWing

    I quess that is why I fly low, so I have a good signal.

  8. #8
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell phones in your ShortWing

    Actually I was returning from working on an airplane in the next town over, using the bluetooth on my phone to answer a question about a loose trim yoke while chasing pigs in a field.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Cell phones in your ShortWing

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Actually I was returning from working on an airplane in the next town over, using the bluetooth on my phone to answer a question about a loose trim yoke while chasing pigs in a field.
    I wish you had chased those $&@&$)()$&!#%%>{}* pigs south instead of north! They have found my neighbor so I expect my place is next. Much worse than opossums or rats since I live within city limits and it’s not safe to use a powerful enough firearm to exterminate them. Even if they could be trapped or killed, what does a person do with 20 or 30 hogs alive or dead?
    "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement." - Fred Brooks

  10. #10
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cell phones in your ShortWing

    They buy them alive around here and ship them south to process and ship overseas. Lot of guys trapping them.

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