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I would like to find earlier versions of the TriPacer TCDS. The FAA RGL only goes back to revision 33, and I know somewhere along the way additional data was removed from the TCDS. If anyone has older copies, I’d like to see them. Perhaps posting them to the Tech Library would be a good place for them.
Rev 33 is 2/12/1999. I know in earlier versions they listed alternate engines for PA-22-160 to allow 150 engines in the 160. The latest versions don’t have that anymore. I don’t recall if it was in a Note, or if it was under Item 106 Optional Engines. No idea why it would have been removed. When 80/87 was still available, this was a popular change so I’m sure there are PA-22-160s running around with O320-A1A engines still. Based on the new? (Since 1999), they don’t comply with the TCDS.
If you look at both TCDS the serial number ranges for both the -150 and -160 are the same. 22-2378, 22-2425 and up. So..... if your PA22 was serial number 22-2425 you could change the engine from the -160 B1A to a -150 AIA which would make it legal with just a logbook entry. You may have to change the registration to the -150 suffix, not sure about that.
Early Tri-Pacers had the 320 no suffix which was confusing. About the same time that the Lycoming did away with the service bulletin describing the adding of the suffix to the basic 320, i.e. adding different prop bolt sizes, Lycoming added the A1A to B1A similarities into SSP 110. Special Service Publication 110 describes the commonality of certified engines. In other words its data showing the only difference between the two engines is compression ratio. SSP 110 could be used then as approved data for changing the engine data plate from a A1A to B1A or as you describe B1A to A1A.
For our SWPs as long as your serial number is listed on The suffix model range you could go up or down and have your engine data plate reflect the changes. So... if I have a PA20-135 I can go and change the engine and required equipment to an 0-235 it will now be a PA 20-115 as the serial numbers are PA20-001 and up for the 115.
Last edited by Vagabondblues; 01-24-2019 at 04:27 PM.
If you look at both TCDS the serial number ranges for both the -150 and -160 are the same. 22-2378, 22-2425 and up. So..... if your PA22 was serial number 22-2425 you could change the engine from the -160 B1A to a -150 AIA which would make it legal with just a logbook entry. You may have to change the registration to the -150 suffix, not sure about that.
Early Tri-Pacers had the 320 no suffix which was confusing. About the same time that the Lycoming did away with the service bulletin describing the adding of the suffix to the basic 320, i.e. adding different prop bolt sizes, Lycoming added the A1A to B1A similarities into SSP 110. Special Service Publication 110 describes the commonality of certified engines. In other words its an approved data showing the only difference between the two engines is compression ratio. SSP 110 could be used then as approved data for changing the engine data plate from a A1A to B1A or as you describe B1A to A1A.
For our SWPs as long as your serial number is listed on The suffix model range you could go up or down and have your engine data plate reflect the changes with a piston change and new data plate. So... if I have a PA20-135 I can go and change the engine and required equipment to an 0-235 it will now be a PA 20-115 as the serial numbers are PA20-001 and up for the 115.
Actually the aircraft model on the data plate defines what is allowed. A PA-22-160 only lists th O320B2A and I think B2B, so even with the same serial number range, the -160 is only authorized the engines listed, likewise a PA-22-150 is only authorized the 3 or 4 variations of O320A or no letter listed. Any other engine would not meet “Type Design” and therefor would be unairworthy. That said, I’ve done both Field Approvals and DER Approvals to install different engines. Also note that each model has a different FAA Approved Flight Manual that is Required Equipment. The flight manual has engine limits identified. Doing engine changes will change these limits and require a flight manual supplement.
I found a 1996 version of the Piper TCDS on microfiche, problem is I can't find a microfiche viewer. Its yours if you want it.
I have been doing this long enough to remember when the drawing numbers were on the TCDS. Kind of a throwback to the specification sheets. Related to that and before 1958 the mechanic issued a new airworthiness certificate every year, giving the name "Annual" to the conformity inspection to maintain the aircraft per the TCDS. So... did the older TCDS have a note saying something like if you change the aircraft to drawing **** you could change the aircraft model/series/version and then record it on the annual airworthiness application? Model/Series i.e. -150, -160 would then have become part of the permanent airworthiness certificate (after 195 not the data plate.
In another post you said that you could issue Airworthiness Certificates as a Designee. As my aircraft only has the PA20 on the data plate, if I changed the engine to a O-235C1, changed the prop and spinner, changed range markings on the engine instruments. Obtained a new "engineering signed" flight manual for the PA20-115 from Piper and removed the oil cooler and installed a cooling baffle and the other required equipment would you issue a new airworthiness certificate as the serial number range is PA20-001 and up?
If I am correct that would change the registration and the model number.
Todd
Last edited by Vagabondblues; 01-28-2019 at 12:11 PM.
I found a 1996 version of the Piper TCDS on microfiche, problem is I can't find a microfiche viewer. Its yours if you want it.
I have been doing this long enough to remember when the drawing numbers were on the TCDS. Kind of a throwback to the specification sheets. Related to that and before 1958 the mechanic issued a new airworthiness certificate every year, giving the name "Annual" to the conformity inspection to maintain the aircraft per the TCDS. So... did the older TCDS have a note saying something like if you change the aircraft to drawing **** you could change the aircraft model/series/version and then record it on the annual airworthiness application? Model/Series i.e. -150, -160 would then have become part of the permanent airworthiness certificate (after 195 not the data plate.
In another post you said that you could issue Airworthiness Certificates as a Designee. As my aircraft only has the PA20 on the data plate, if I changed the engine to a O-235C1, changed the prop and spinner, changed range markings on the engine instruments. Obtained a new "engineering signed" flight manual for the PA20-115 from Piper and removed the oil cooler and installed a cooling baffle and the other required equipment would you issue a new airworthiness certificate as the serial number range is PA20-001 and up?
If I am correct that would change the registration and the model number.
Todd
Simple answer is no, that would require “approved data” to modify the PA-20 to install an engine not otherwise approved on the PA-20, or would require “approved data” and a supplemental data plate to change the model to a PA-20-115. Part of the approved data might come from the TCDS, but likely there would not be sufficient data there and you may need additional drawings.
In any case, the O235 is not listed as an optional engine on the PA-20 even though the serial range for both models overlap.
Fourth item down issuing a new airworthiness for a model change.
The drawing 12690 is for both the 115 and 125.
Maintenance manuals and parts catalogs are “accepted data”, not approved data. They can be used as supporting data for a field approval, but can’t be used as approved data in block 8 of the 337 without additional approval.
The pages out of 8130.2 are rev F, the current version is rev H. To get a model change on your airworthiness certificate, you need to submit an application (8130-6). The inspector or DAR will inspect the aircraft for conformity to the TC. If changing model 8130.2 says you need a supplemental data plate indicating the model change along with whatever physical changes are required on the airplane. Part of the application package will be the 337 indicating those changes necessary for the model change.
As stated earlier, it could be done as just an engine change to your PA-20 without changing model, or can be done as a model change. Both require “Approved Data”, Order 8300.16 and AC43-210A both list the possible sources of approved data. The most common is STC or Field Approval. Other options could be a pre Oct 1955 337, or a DER approval on an 8110-3. Some DARs are authorized to issue Field Approvals, and some DERs are authorized to issue 8110-3s in support of major alterations.
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Looking for older versions of TCDS 1A6
Originally Posted by Vagabondblues
not the data plate.
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