Welcome! Becoming a registered user of ShortWingPipers.Org is free and easy! Click the "Register" link found in the upper right hand corner of this screen. It's easy and you can then join the fun posting and learning about Short Wing Pipers!

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 39

Thread: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

  1. #1
    Topogen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Buena Vista, CO (primary) and Hallettsville, Texas
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    Let's face it. Our planes are not great gliders. I'm starting this thread to collect consensus input on what to do after an engine-out on take off. V-speeds, emergency checks, what to do, etc.... Any input at all since I think about this issue while driving my 60 year old airplane...
    This topic comes from a recent report here:
    https://pilotworkshop.com/tips/engin...m_campaign=tip
    Thanks!
    Mark

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Eufaula, OK
    Posts
    478
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    Every plane, pilot and situation is different. The only thing anyone can do is evaluate the situation and make decisions based on what they have and not what they want. The more proficient a person is in the aircraft they are flying the more they can do.
    "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement." - Fred Brooks

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Frederick MD
    Posts
    263
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    Practice practice practice! Know your airplane! Make all your approaches power off and see what your glide is like, do it at different speeds. Use that as a basis for figuring what glide speed range will work. Then go to altitude and try 270 degree turns with no power and see how much altitude you loose in the turn. A turn back to the airport is not normally a 180, more like a 270. Combine the data from your turn experiment with your glide experiments and that will give an idea of altitude required. Now recognize that wind, density altitude, and a host of other issues will provide variables to that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Stephen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Lopez Island, WA
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    You might also try your turns using 10 degrees flaps and compare your altitude loss without flaps. I know I can make very quick canyon turns using flaps.
    "You can only tie the record for flying low."

  5. #5
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Germantown, Tennessee 01TN
    Posts
    2,953
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    Start by knowing and being able to maintain BEST GLIDE SPEED in your airplane.

  6. #6
    smcnutt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,237
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    I've always heard that when your engine quits in a Pacer you look out your side window over the front of your tire and that's your landing spot. Being that a tripe's gear is a little farther to the rear, that might be a little less accurate.

    Please resume your otherwise intelligent conversation.
    “Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.”
    ― Victor Hugo

  7. #7
    CamTom12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    532
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    I’d recommend practicing this. At altitude at first, then retard to idle from various altitudes and parts of the pattern.

    The takeoff phase should in reality be a series of predetermined decisions. For example, on takeoff land straight ahead from 0-200’ AGL, nearest field with 45 degrees of takeoff heading from 200-600’, 90 degrees from 600-800’ AGL, and turn back at altitudes above 800’ AGL.

    Those numbers are made up, but you should practice and have a good idea of where your ranges are. It’s easier to make the decisions before the throttle goes forward than it is when you’re in a tight spot with no power.

  8. #8
    tjlebaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    57
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    I can’t imagine any scenario where a successful 180 could be performed in a PA-22 where there is a complete loss of power on initial climb out. This one thing I know, if you stall, lose control and hit the ground nose down there is a very high probability that it will be fatal. The more energy you can dissipate the better your chances. My plan is to lower the nose, maintain best glide and at the most, shallow turns towards the most clear area. I will never try the 180 back to the airport.

    I’m always amazed how temperature and weight effects power off 180s. The hotter the weather, the closer you need to be on the downwind. So if you pick an altitude for a turn back to the runway, you also need to consider temperature and how heavy the airplane is loaded. It makes a difference. An AOA indicator can help do the figuring for you but that is another discussion.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    After a career of flying single engine Cessnas, I find the 180 power-off accuracy landing very challenging in the Tri-Pacer. In the 206 and 210, I prided myself on being able to pull power to idle during the descent, fly a normal pattern, touch down on the spot and taxi to parking without adding power. (I was based at a very small airport) Since I'm paying for gas now I don't get as much practice! On the other hand, needing to practice is a good excuse to go flying!
    To answer your question, part of my pre-takeoff brief is to think through where do I go if the engine quits right after takeoff? Straight ahead or slight left or right? That gets my mind thinking about other options, so the runway doesn't feel like the only safe haven. There are too many variables to give a hard and fast answer as to what altitude a turn back could be accomplished. Regarding the use of flaps, turn radius is improved at a lower airspeed, but flaps will also steepen the glide path, which may or may not be a good thing.

  10. #10
    Topogen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Buena Vista, CO (primary) and Hallettsville, Texas
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    These are all great points to ponder. I'm 'programmed' to go straight ahead for a single important reason: experience. I had an engine failure at about 300' AGL in a SeaRey (experimental amphib). I automatically went straight ahead, did a rapid 'nose over' steep approach and hit hard and ran off the end of the runway. It was a rough ride into an 'over-run' area but did not bend anything. I make it a habit to know my options on take off. Always. Minor maneuvers L and R are of course possible to find the best option. What is the best glide speed with flaps and without?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •