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Thread: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

  1. #21
    Crash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    Quote Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
    I think that the difference in a windmilling prop with the engine dead would be quite different from a "windmilling" engine at idle.
    Interesting video on this topic:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24BU15dGdJE

    tl:dr: These guys tested simulated and actual engine out glide.. Results were slightly contrary to the party line, but in the end it depends on plane, prop etc. I always assume I'll have worse glide with actual dead stick and hope to be pleasantly surprised if I have some extra performance. (Pleasant == didn't overshoot on a short field). First rule: fly the plane.
    Last edited by Crash; 02-12-2019 at 09:03 AM.

  2. #22

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    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    I believe that the idle speed makes a really big difference in light planes as well as the best glide speed.
    A high idle speed and a low best gliding speed making the most difference.
    An aircraft with a fairly high gliding speed and a low idle perhaps a negative difference.
    With my Pacer you could easily spot the landing spot by just looking out of the side window and just over the left landing gear and there it is...
    As an aside most (or many) times the aircraft ends up overshooting the intended landing spot and not short (turn backs not necessarily one of these examples).

  3. #23
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    Interesting video on this topic:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24BU15dGdJE

    tl:dr: These guys tested simulated and actual engine out glide.. Results were slightly contrary to the party line, but in the end it depends on plane, prop etc. I always assume I'll have worse glide with actual dead stick and hope to be pleasantly surprised if I have some extra performance. (Pleasant == didn't overshoot on a short field). First rule: fly the plane.
    I randomly watched that video last night, knew exactly which one you were linking before I ever clicked to check!

    I agree, it's plane to plane and it's an important thing to know. Then you can practice going long/short as necessary so if it happens in real life you're prepared for the differences. I'm going to go up and check mine out one of these days, too.

  4. #24
    Topogen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    This is a bit off-topic but I'm planning on practicing dead-stick landings at my grass strip (1800' long at sea level). Here is my normal landing video; you will note it basically a clear approach except for a smallish (20') tree about 300ft from from touch-down. Did not touch brakes and did not use much of the runway as you can see.
    https://youtu.be/-VBH-ot3Efc

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    One important thing to remember is the nose goes down immediately and never rush the turn with the rudder.
    Nose too high and too much rudder and there will be a crash from a stall spin instead of landing short.

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    Not a good idea!!! But if you do, good luck.

  7. #27

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    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    A good rule of thumb is to think with the nose down.
    If the engine quit, think about what you are going to do - Before that happens - and put the nose down!
    One time I was taking some instruction in gliders with Tom Knauf ( famous glider guy ) and he said before we took off on tow that there was a 50 - 50 chance of the rope breaking Either it does or it doesn't.
    When you take off there is a 50 - 50 chance that the engine will quit, either it will or it won't.
    You should have already made up your mind what you are going to do and do that.

  8. #28
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    Quote Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
    When you take off there is a 50 - 50 chance that the engine will quit, either it will or it won't.
    You should have already made up your mind what you are going to do and do that.
    While this seems a bit pessimistic, I think itís great advice.

    I try to think about this for every takeoff before I push the black knob forward.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    So.... I tested some dead-stick landings. I pulled power mid-field at different altitudes AGL (with 1 notch of flaps). I pushed the nose over and immediately trimmed to 75-80 mph with a windmilling prop.

    Here is what I found: At pattern altitude (900' AGL) I could fly a (more or less) normal pattern from downwind to base to final, then full flaps with time to set up a nice flare. I say "more or less" because I kept my base to final in pretty tight to make sure I made the field. I was really surprised at how much altitude I lost with each 90 degree turn! VSI was pegged near 800+ FPM during these turns.

    At lower altitudes, things got interesting. For example, at about 600'-700' AGL, the base to final turns must be made at a point downwind and opposite your expected touchdown. Stated differently, turn base pretty much over the runway. A quick turn to final and flare... and I stress quick. I also notice it is very exciting in a crosswind. This is a very dynamic process so your mileage may vary! Winds, temps, field elevation, etc are some of the variables. I played around a bit with full flaps vs partial but did not test a no-flap situation. Not a huge difference with full vs partial flaps to me anyway (only applying full flaps on very short final approach).

    Its seems to me that when you get near the ground (like 1000' AGL) pick your site and stick to it. IF I lose power on take off, I wont even think about turning back if under pattern altitude. The aircraft bricks out big time during the turns and that is no bueno. To minimize accumulation of undie-fudge, find the softest thing to hit within your field of view straight ahead or slightly left or right. If you are well over pattern altitude a turn back might work BUT if you are far away (downfield) you may not be within a reasonable glide distance. Again, your mileage may vary!

  10. #30
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turn back to airport in a Tripe?

    Good test!

    Just to clarify, you pulled the red handle and had a windmilling prop, right?

    Iíd say thatís pretty good real-world training.

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