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Thread: Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

  1. #1

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    Default Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

    So I am looking for a 22/20 as my first airplane purchase. I have around 85 hours in a Citabria and another 85 in conventional airplanes, but I haven't flown one in about 4 years as I have been flying helicopters (a tail dragger at least) for work. Before I potentially hop into a SWP piper for the first time (insurance says I need one hour of dual), I am wondering if I should attempt to get some landing practice in a another Citabria as it appears there might be a few along the front range here in Colorado. Just curious if any of you have any suggestions on knocking the rust off. Either way, when I buy a plane I will have to get that hour of dual, as it needs to be in type, so maybe that is the time to do it. Again, just thinking ahead and wondering if anyone else was in the same boat and how they made sure they could safely fly a new to them airplane.

  2. #2
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

    I'd say fly what you can, it all helps. When you find a Pacer go up with the owner and find a local instructor.

  3. #3
    ClippedWing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

    I hadn’t flown a Pacer in 30 years when I bought mine. Found a 170 and a Stinson and did a few TOs and Lndgs in each. While neither are similar in characteristics, especially to the Pacer, like Steve said, it all helps. Two landings in Pippy and I was ready to launch.

    Citibrias are good, honest taildraggers and while I believe the Pacer makes you work a bit more, if you can fly the Citabria, you shouldn’t have any problems in the Pacer.

    If you get down to So Cal, I’d be happy to take you up, although I’m not insured for instruction in my airplane.

    Best of luck in your search.

  4. #4
    sierrasplitter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

    If you can start back up in a Citabria I would do it as soon as possible. Just start building tail wheel time again . I got my endorsement in a 7 GCAA and just bought a PA22/20. I only have 60 total tail wheel hours. Most in the Citabria
    i think time in any tail wheel will get your feet and brain working yo keep centerline and when you move over to the pacer you will only need to learn and understand the nature of the short wing and short coupled ground stance .
    Again I don’t have enough hours to be an expert by any means but I’m in your shoes pretty much
    the Citabria feels like a kite.
    The Pacer feels like a pickup truck. I mean that in a good way. It drops like a rock if you cut power but seems to feel more solid in landings to me
    it’s just s but squirrely at first but not enough to freak you out Just enough to make you wish you could look better
    you will love it
    Last edited by sierrasplitter; 03-17-2019 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Bad Speller

  5. #5
    ClippedWing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

    Quote Originally Posted by sierrasplitter View Post
    it’s just s but squirrely at first but not enough to freak you out Just enough to make you wish you could look better
    you will love it
    And every time I go a week or so and transition from the 737 back to the Pacer I wish there was no one sitting on the benches watching us do landings! ��

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

    Thanks for all the replies, gents. I think I will try to get some time in a Citabria again. I've probably learned quite a few bad habits while flying whirly birds.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClippedWing View Post
    If you get down to So Cal, Id be happy to take you up, although Im not insured for instruction in my airplane.
    Thanks, I appreciate that! I don't get out to SoCal much as my family is mostly located around the bay area but if I do, I will look you up.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

    Got a tip from a retired F-15 jock that now fly's P-51's, Super Decathlon & Waco's. He and his young son stopped by my hanger one evening and I commented on his son's shoes to make conversation. His dad then then told me, he also had the same brand on, your can feel the rudder better. I was a little skeptical at first but ask for and got a pair at Christmas. I know keep them in the airplane and change into them every time I fly my Pacer. Get yourself a pair of Converse tennis shoes.

  8. #8
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

    We had a local instructor who made you take your shoes off.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

    I have always worn boots to fly. I learned to fly through a military Aero Club in Korea and I think all of the instructors there usually wore boots. When we were in uniform the boots were mandatory. The only time I remember not flying with boots on my feet was in the Mooney M20C I rented to get my commercial ticket. I had to wear tennis shoes in it because my boots were too big to let me work the peddals. Footwear isn’t that important as long as it doesn’t interfere with controlling the airplane. I would bet there are plenty of good pilots in Alaska wearing heavy winter boots to fly. I know I wore winter shoes along with bulky coats that limited movement when I was flying around the interior during the winter. When I first bought the Thorp I had some trouble with my right foot hanging up. Instead of helpful advice to fix the airplane all I got was comments about my footwear. The peddal angle was bad on the right side forcing me to lift my foot to apply the brake. A small adjustment and all has been good ever since.
    Last edited by Jeff J; 03-19-2019 at 07:14 AM.
    "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement." - Fred Brooks

  10. #10
    blue44's Avatar
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    Default Re: Currently in the market for a 22/20 and wondering about refresher training

    I used to take lessons in the 172 in worn out deck shoes trying to get more feel, now flying the Clipper in either L.L. Bean rubber boots or military boots for CAP, I'm thinking it's more in your butt than your shoes. Don't forget you might have to walk out of wherever you went after an unplanned overnight stay... Donn

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