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Thread: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

  1. #81
    Dwain's Avatar
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    Default Re: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

    Sorry, bad terminology. "Under the windshield" should have been boot cowl. - Dwain

  2. #82
    Curt Ammons cammons3's Avatar
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    Default Re: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

    Regarding paperwork, does the accomplishing of this SB require completing a FAA Form 337 for major repair (primarily) and/or alteration signed by an A&P/IA in Block 7? I'm thinking back to the shoulder harness installation thread whereby if you welded any kind of tab onto the structure, the FAA required a 337. Since you're cutting loose the sheetmetal from the tubing, even if the tube (aka structural member) is not damaged, welding the sheetmetal back on constitutes a "major" repair...


    Thoughts?
    Curt
    N7606K/N4405H

  3. #83
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

    SB819 was done on my Clipper along with other tubing repairs.The 43.13 and SB819 were the approved data so block 3 on the 337 did not need the FSDO/FAA approval. The 337 went direct to OKC.
    Since SB819 is non structural I could be comfortable with a log book entry as long as no repairs were needed under the sheet metal. In my case there was much rotted tubing hiding behind the sheet metal so that part was a major repair hence the 337.
    Stating that SB819 was completed was included in the major repair documentation.

  4. #84
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

    Is all welding considered a major repair?

  5. #85
    Clayton Harper's Avatar
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    Default Re: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Is all welding considered a major repair?
    I could read it, without it i being a major repair, if the sheet metal isn't structural. Call it fairing.

  6. #86
    Curt Ammons cammons3's Avatar
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    Default Re: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

    Quote Originally Posted by Clayton Harper View Post
    I could read it, without it i being a major repair, if the sheet metal isn't structural. Call it fairing.

    I could see that as well IF you were welding on the "fairing" itself only, and then bolting the fairing to the airframe/tube. However, the sheetmetal removed as part of SB819 is WELDED to the airframe, thus it just involved primary structure... correct?
    Curt
    N7606K/N4405H

  7. #87
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    Default Re: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

    Curt, That would be the way I would see it.

  8. #88
    Curt Ammons cammons3's Avatar
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    Default Re: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

    I've been doing some research, and I found this thread just to confuse the matter further: https://www.askbob.aero/content/welding

    So if I take some sheetmetal off of a primary structure, and then put it back on using the same methods used in original manufacturing process, does that constitute a major repair? It certainly doesn't fall under any sort of alteration, but the fact that it could possibly alter the strength of the structural member... hmmm. I'm thinking more along the lines of metal oxidation due to heating/cooling multiple times, thus altering mechanical properties. This holds truer when welding with oxyacetylene vs. GTAW (TIG).

    While I'm not an avid fan of Mike Busch, he did make a pretty valid point as it relates to a Major Repair on an engine mount: https://www.avweb.com/news/savvyavia..._197316-1.html. AC 43.13 is always a good fall-back whenever all else fails in obtaining approved data.

    I plan to discuss this with our ASI at the MEM-FSDO. He is a pretty good guy... yes, good guy and FAA used in the same sentence can be just as confusing...

    Curt
    N7606K/N4405H

  9. #89

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    Default Re: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

    I have never seen a SB signed off on a 337. Not required for alterations because the SB is actually a revision to the Type Certificate. In thinking about this, 819 is an inspection not a repair. If you found a bad tube and had to replace during the inspection, that would require 337. Merely doing the inspection even though welding involved would not be major. Would have to be done by A&P who technically can weld.��

  10. #90
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: SB 819 Fuselage Door Frame Corrosion

    (b)Major repairs -
    (1)Airframe major repairs. Repairs to the following parts of an airframe and repairs of the following types, involving the strengthening, reinforcing, splicing, and manufacturing of primary structural members or their replacement, when replacement is by fabrication such as riveting or welding, are airframe major repairs.
    (i) Box beams.
    (ii) Monocoque or semimonocoque wings or control surfaces.
    (iii) Wing stringers or chord members.
    (iv) Spars.
    (v) Spar flanges.
    (vi) Members of truss-type beams.
    (vii) Thin sheet webs of beams.
    (viii) Keel and chine members of boat hulls or floats.
    (ix) Corrugated sheet compression members which act as flange material of wings or tail surfaces.
    (x) Wing main ribs and compression members.
    (xi) Wing or tail surface brace struts.
    (xii) Engine mounts.
    (xiii) Fuselage longerons.
    (xiv) Members of the side truss, horizontal truss, or bulkheads.
    (xv) Main seat support braces and brackets.
    (xvi) Landing gear brace struts.
    (xvii) Axles.
    (xviii) Wheels.
    (xix) Skis, and ski pedestals.
    (xx) Parts of the control system such as control columns, pedals, shafts, brackets, or horns.
    (xxi) Repairs involving the substitution of material.
    (xxii) The repair of damaged areas in metal or plywood stressed covering exceeding six inches in any direction.
    (xxiii) The repair of portions of skin sheets by making additional seams.
    (xxiv) The splicing of skin sheets.
    (xxv) The repair of three or more adjacent wing or control surface ribs or the leading edge of wings and control surfaces, between such adjacent ribs.
    (xxvi) Repair of fabric covering involving an area greater than that required to repair two adjacent ribs.
    (xxvii) Replacement of fabric on fabric covered parts such as wings, fuselages, stabilizers, and control surfaces.
    (xxviii) Repairing, including rebottoming, of removable or integral fuel tanks and oil tanks.

    I don't see the sheetmetal as structural. The fusleage is not heat treated so I don't see it being major to weld it back on just like Piper did. If you question it being major error on the side of caution and file a 337. No harm, no foul.

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