Nose Tanks PA15, 16 & 17

[andya]

Is that placard on the tank from the TCD's

[BrettL]

Andy, The placard reading "FUEL SHUT OFF UNDER TANK OFF – HANDLE DOWN" does NOT appear in the TCDS for either the PA-15 or PA-17, neither does it appear in the C.A.A. Approved Flight Manual.

Here's my rundown on placards:

TCDS for the PA-15 - Placards are in NOTE 2 near the end of the document.
Note: It does not appear that item (a) was installed in the aircraft by Piper. Items (b) and (c) are Piper drawing 11628.

TCDS for the PA-17 - Placards are in NOTE 2 near the end of the document.
Note: Item (a) is Piper drawing 11484. Item (b) is Piper drawing 11500.

AD 85-06-04 - Paragraph (e) adds requirement for a placard not installed by Piper.

AD 99-01-05 - Paragraph (d) adds requirements for "NO STEP" placards. Piper drawing 11529, Fig. 8. shows original "NO STEP".

The AFM specifies power instrument and airspeed instrument markings.

Other placards were installed by Piper during manufacture as shown in various drawings. Among those are the fuel shut-off placard, and the baggage capacity placard.

[BrettL]

Oh, and by the way, if anyone is having trouble with the fuel drain on the bottom of the tank (required by AD 85-06-04) dripping some fuel inside the airplane when you open it (instead of everything going down the hose), I've found a possible solution, and I recommend considering this if you are replacing the valve for any reason. Pacerman, you might consider this anyway, since replacing the valve is easier with the tank out of the airplane.

I talked with the president of Saf-Air at Oshkosh about mine dripping inside the airplane. He told me that Saf-Air makes a revised valve with double o-rings that would probably solve the issue. They don't advertise it at all, but you can obtain one by calling them directly. Supposedly they make it specifically for a helicopter installation. I bought one, but I've not installed it yet. It's the same price as the regular valve (which I believe is the CAV-110-H4).

[LightFlight]

Mine worked extremely well at first. Very accurate reading on the gauge. After a few months it suddenly started reading 2 gallons lower than what was in the tank very accurately. I found that the float cork and wire had somehow rotated from the horizontal position shown in the photos to being vertical (cork pointing straight up in the tank). I'm not even sure how this is possible. I'm deferring pulling it out to to correct it. It's easier just to live with the gauge reading 2 gallons low.

One of the nice things about this type of gauge is you can see the gasoline level pass the glass face of the gauge when you have about 4-5 gallons of fuel remaining (depending on aircraft pitch). It's a nice verification of fuel level.

I found this with a search, and this and the pictures make a whole lot of sense to me!!! Thanks Brett!


I have been finding my gauge to read zero after approximately 2 hours of flying, but I calculate my fuel burn to be VERY close to 4.5 gallons per hour so I should get 2.66 hours of flying from a full 12 US gallon tank (interesting that 9.99 Imperial gallons works out to 12 US gallons).

I always leave the .66 hours as a reserve, though I wish it was a slightly larger reserve, and I plan for about 2 hours of flying for legs.

This makes sense now, as the other day I did a routine trip that generally takes me 1.6 to 1.7 hours, but this time I was fighting a decent headwind. The trip took me 2.1 hours, and I was beginning to get uncomfortable as the gauge was very near zero when I landed. I kept running the calculation in my head, looking for places to set down if I got too much air in the gas tank, and hoped for the best all the way down my intentionally high final.

Then, a dip of the tank revealed approximately 2 gallons left in the bottom. I was happy to see I wasn't as near to a dead stick landing as I had thought, but a little befuddled. I guess I will get my borescope out and inspect the cork next time the tank is empty.

[tnowak]

LightFlight,

I carried out an accurate calibration of my standard fuel tank last year when I wanted to make a dip stick. I got the following results (all in US G, but converted from litres):
Completely full to the top of the filler neck: 13.05
(F) indication: 12.15
(7/ indication: 10.03
(3/4) indication: 8.45
(1/4) indication: 3.17

My averange fuel burn for my A65 is around 4.33 USG/hr for long trips.

When I completely fill my tank to the top of the filler neck (rock the aircraft while filling) my gauge reads just above the (F) indication.
TonyN

[cammons3]

Well, it's been a little over a year since replacing the fuel gauge and also eliminating the seeping leak. I used PRC 1422-B2 on the gauge area as well as the supplied gaskets. However, as you can see, the seepage has returned.

Plan to pull the tank while installing the C85-12 next month, and attempt repairs; but wasn't planning any tank repairs though. Any additional suggestions for mitigating this recurring seepage issue?

IMG_20140723_082322.jpg IMG_20140723_082245.jpg

BTW, Steve, I may need to borrow the gauge puller... again. I'll give you a holler.

[pacerman]

LightFlight,

I carried out an accurate calibration of my standard fuel tank last year when I wanted to make a dip stick. I got the following results (all in US G, but converted from litres):
Completely full to the top of the filler neck: 13.05
(F) indication: 12.15
(7/ indication: 10.03
(3/4) indication: 8.45
(1/4) indication: 3.17

My averange fuel burn for my A65 is around 4.33 USG/hr for long trips.

When I completely fill my tank to the top of the filler neck (rock the aircraft while filling) my gauge reads just above the (F) indication.
TonyN

Yeah, last year I cut it close and landed my Vagabond with only fumes in the tank and the fuel truck pumped 12.6 gallons into my 12 gallon tank. I do not ever want to repeat that experience. Joe

[tnowak]

Hi Curt,

I had similar leak issues but my application of PR stuff seems to have done the trick. I did my repairs probably 3-4 years ago and, so far, no evidence of fuel leakage.
From your pictures it looks like fuel has got between the metal and paint.
My suggestion would be to remove all paint and old sealant from around the gauge area, thoroughly clean/degrease with MEK (or similar) and just reapply fresh PR sealant around the gauge/tank interface point.
I think I used PR-1750.
Hope this helps
TonyN

[cammons3]

My suggestion would be to remove all paint and old sealant from around the gauge area, thoroughly clean/degrease with MEK (or similar) and just reapply fresh PR sealant around the gauge/tank interface point.
I think I used PR-1750.

Yep, just a pain as I had stripped, repaired, re-sealed, and repainted the tank; in addition to installing a new gauge last year. I thought I was going to have to do a new W&B after the pooky application.
Anyway, I wasn't sure if there was any new-fangled stuff that would solve all fuel leaks and increase useful load!

[tnowak]

I went flying yesterday so was able to take a pic of my tank.
The only thing I can think that may have caused an issue for you is the paste style sealant you used. Perhaps it didn't quite seal all the surfaces properly due to the paste like qualities (but that is just a guess).
I used the thick liquid variety (PR1750).
I also had a very small weep from the glass seal, so carefully applied same sealant in that area as well.
Tony