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Thread: Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

  1. #21
    tnowak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

    Re: "the "simple tube cabane" IS a couple miles an hour worth of "less drag" than the PA-17 gear"

    I know all about drag and round vs streamlined tubes, but does it really make that amount of difference in the cruise? I ask as my PA17 is equipped with French Messier shock struts with lots of "round" bits (Vag was originally imported into France and used by their touring club). I have often wondered what sort of performance improvement could be obtained by fitting fairings to these shock struts.
    Tony Nowak

  2. #22

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    Default Re: Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbert Pierce
    I think what Hillbilly was referring to was bolting the locating fixtures on a jig rather then welding the locating fixtures to the jig frame. Welding causes metal to move and could cause jig errors whereby bolting the locating fixtures to a welded jig frame insures you have not lost accuracy.

    Yes, exactly (thanks Gilbert, I did not see his question.)

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

    Quote Originally Posted by tnowak
    Re: I know all about drag and round vs streamlined tubes, but does it really make that amount of difference in the cruise? I ask as my PA17 is equipped with French Messier shock struts with lots of "round" bits (Vag was originally imported into France and used by their touring club). Tony Nowak
    Tony, I'm not sure you are actually "overlooking this" fact, but both the "simple tube" and "bungee cord" type PA-15/17 cabanes are round tube. The real difference comes from the "fat and bulbous" teardrop-covered bungee cords just about halfway up them... and, there is clearly more drag with those two "nacelles" hanging out in the wind than with "just round tubes"!

    I am not familiar with the "Messier" (is that "mess-see-air" or "messy-er"? ) type cabanes (got a pic?), but I HAVE seen a set of "streamlined" solid cabanes Field Approved onto a -15, and of COURSE you would have to try the "difference" on the same airplane under the same conditions to know if there was any "advantage" seen, but that was NOT a "particularly fast" Vagabond (65 Continental, metal prop, and someone had added a "slight flare" on the pitot tube -it SAID it was going 100 (plus a couple "pennies")mph, but darned if my 87mph (closed course, stopwatch timed over known distances) Lycoming 65 Vagabond didn't VERY SLOWLY "crawl ahead" of it side-by-side!). Airspeeds are not THAT reliable (and I DOUBT mine is "reading that slow!).

  4. #24
    tnowak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

    Hi John,
    Attached are pics of Messier shock struts (pronounced Mess ee ay). Messier are still in business making undercarriages for airliners (Messier Dowty).
    [attachment=1:22lzuud9]IMG_0376-1.JPG[/attachment:22lzuud9]
    [attachment=0:22lzuud9]G-BCVB.jpg[/attachment:22lzuud9]

    Unless I am missing something, it looks like the original cabine tube was aerofoil in shape. Just looked at Piper dwg 11553 which clearly shows this. Or were these only fitted on PA-15s?
    Tony Nowak

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

    Heeeey, those are neat lookin'! Is there some European Approval for those?

    I dunno for sure about the streamline cabanes, to tell you the truth. I've only ever seen two PA-15s with "unsprung" gear, and they were both REAL EARLY serial numbers. I'll look more closely into that when the weather turns around here (not too long, now!).

  6. #26
    tnowak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

    They would have been fitted in the late 50s early 60s by the French and, I suspect, specifically adapted for use on a Vag (original Messier dwgs make reference to "Piper Vagabond"). As they came "as found fitted" when my Vag was imported from France in early 70s they just got "accepted" by our Permit to Fly system here (similar to your EAA Experimental category). I think there are 5 other Vags in UK (all ex French) with identical Messier shock struts. Ride over grass / rough ground is superior to bungees.
    Tony N

  7. #27

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    Default Re: Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

    Tony N or anyone,
    Can you give source for the Meesier shock strut for the Vagabond? I need to replace my gear struts and those Messier struts are nifty. The only thing available from Univair is the bungee type.
    Thanks,
    Eric Schlanser

  8. #28
    mmoyle's Avatar
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    Default Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

    I'm looking for drawings to build a jig to straighten a set of univair gear legs.....on this PA22/20 conversion. The left gear leg is towed out a bunch....Camber is not concentric... rebuilding a set of double puck brakes Rocket Gave me a few years ago. Waiting on rivets and brake lining before tackling the landing gear problem.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  9. #29
    JPerkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

    Is that a McCatto on the nose?

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  10. #30
    rocket's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

    I can read the McCully sticker from Naknek

    noted a a lack of keyboard activity from Mark and figured his hand was still healing or he was getting jiggy with his pacer?

    Rocket

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