PA-22 IFR Certification - CDI Placement & Panel Layout

[ceweaver]

Good evening all,

I'm trying to find a set of specs that say where the CDIs need to be located in order to have my TriPacer IFR certified. I've got a '56 and mine are currently located right of the radio stack, side-by-side, on the top row. I've got an estimate from the radio shop that has done some work on the plane in the past to install my new radios (GNC300XL and KN-53). I'll have the plane certified at that time. However, the estimate didn't include having to move the CDIs and I'm concerned that they'll need to be placed on the left side of the radio stack...may put the install out of my price range at this time. I'm attaching a couple of pictures of the panel when I first bought the plane (radios and GS CDI aren't the same as in pics anymore). My preference is to leave it in the current layout and put my newer AI and a turn-coordinator installed in the current locations of the AN instruments.

Can the current layout be certified for IFR flight?
How difficult will it be to fly with CDIs on right side?
Is there room for 6-pack layout and CDIs on left?
How much of a pain (reads $$) is it to modify the layout to above config?

I'd be interested in getting information from those of you with IFR certified planes on your panel layouts and approximate $$ to get it to that state. Pictures would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Chad

[Tadpole]

From my understanding there is no requirement for where a CDI gets placed. Looks like your current layout is just fine. You'd have to keep that paralax veiwing in mind when tracking it, but I bet with a little practice having them over on the right side won't cause you to have any problems.

I think there is a panel layout / STC for the taller panels like yours to do the 6-pack layout, one of the experts that actually have at least flown in a Short Wing can point you in the right direction there.

[ceweaver]

Thanks Jason. It's good to know I shouldn't have to change the whole layout...just having the radios, etc installed will cost enough.

I think I read somewhere that you're in the A.F. If so, and you ever make it out to Langley, let me know and I'll fly down to Newport News and we'll go exploring. All you need to do is holler and let me know when you're coming.

[Tadpole]

Thanks Jason. It's good to know I shouldn't have to change the whole layout...just having the radios, etc installed will cost enough.

I think I read somewhere that you're in the A.F. If so, and you ever make it out to Langley, let me know and I'll fly down to Newport News and we'll go exploring. All you need to do is holler and let me know when you're coming.

Will do. I dont' expect a Langley trip anytime soon though, but it would be nice to finally fly in a Piper with Shorter Wings.

Also, please check with other folks on my answers, I dont' own a plane, I'm not an IFR pilot either...but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

[Steve Pierce]

Univair has an STC to modify the left panel to accept 3 1/8" gauges. Here is a link to an old thread however the Univair link doesn't work anymore. http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum...ighlight=panel

[d.grimm]

I flew this panel IFR a lot, my partner got his instrument rating in it.

[Andrew K]

I flew this panel IFR a lot, my partner got his instrument rating in it.

In a related question... I started studying for my IR and was wondering what it would take (besides a bunch of $$$) to upgrade my VFR panel to an IFR one so I can train in my plane. Will I need all sorts of advanced equipment to demonstrate all types of approaches during the training/checkride or are things like IFR certified GPS units optional? Just trying to compare the numbers between renting a Cessna 172 for the training or putting the money in to upgrading my plane.

Andrew

[d.grimm]

Andrew,
If you currently have a vacuum system it should be pretty painless. I installed a electric turn coordinator (for redundancy), a nav radio with glide slope, a audio panel with marker beacons and a IFR approved GPS. How good are you at finding bargains? There is a lot of value learning in your own airplane, plus you can use it when you are done. A heated pitot, a alternator, and modern gyros with a Woolsey panel might be nice to have items. You are only required to fly the approaches for your equipment, however I doubt the examiner would let you go on non-precision approaches only.
Dave

[ceweaver]

Thanks for the replies. I pulled the STC information off Univair's website and will end up doing that mod eventually. It looks like a good setup that will make scanning easier. For now my priorities are to get the radios installed and the plane paid off.

Dave, Thanks for the picture. I really like your panel layout.

Steve, Thanks for the heads-up on the STC. On a side note, did you get a chance to scan your Denso 337? I know you've been busy with the mess from the other site...

Andrew, I bought mostly used equipment off of eBay to upgrade my plane. I'm taking a chance since I bought mostly from individuals, but the money I saved should make up for any repairs needed. I have purchased the following for my plane:

MAC 1700 and KI-214 - ~$800 I installed these over a year ago and they work great.
GNC300XL - $2350
IND-350A - $400 (unfortunately didn't get the 351A that was only $25 more)
KN-53 w/GS - $695 with 8130
KN-77 - $50
Elect turn coordinator - $201.50 with yellow tag
Attitude Indicator - $325

I only put this stuff in the post to let you know that it can be done fairly inexpensively. I've got a shop that will bench them for me and then install them so I don't always buy items with tags...though I try. The installations are what get you if you can't do it yourself (which I can't).

I've been working on my ticket for 2 months and am ready for my checkride. I just haven't logged anytime in my TriPacer yet. I wish I'd learned in it, but it isn't certified yet. If you're going to upgrade your plane, then I'd recommend you wait. If you aren't, then go the 172 route.

As for what to put in the plane. I'd recommend 2 NAVs (1 w/GS), 2 COMMS, and an approach certified GPS. Two VORs are nice for situational awareness...and for when RAIM isn't available. Just my $0.02

Again, thanks for your comments...

Chad

[Comanchero89P]

There was an STC'd panel (SA00428SE) sold by Woolsey Design and Engineering in the 90's that was pretty popular for awhile. I put one in ourTri Pacer and it came with all the hardware, nutplates, rivets, placards, including detailed engineering drawings, etc and was a very easy install. It looks almost like the picture that d grimm attached above. The differnce was the 3 1/8 hole in the bottom left position which is where I put the LOC/GS head. I did a quick web search and didn't see it, but if you spent some time you may be able to find him, or someone that bought it and never installed it. The paperwork might be an issue in that case since the STC's were sold to you by S/N.

I found a picture of it.

Steve