Welcome! Becoming a registered user of ShortWingPipers.Org is free and easy! Click the "Register" link found in the upper right hand corner of this screen. It's easy and you can then join the fun posting and learning about Short Wing Pipers!

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 56

Thread: Window sealent

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Window sealent

    Im in the very slow process of restoring a PA22/20. Im currently trying to get all three of the doors (front back and baggage) complete so I can feel like I have accomplished something. I want to get the metal work finished and all the latches etc done and then install new windows. What do folks use to seal the window? Do you use a foam tape or silicon sealant? Its not at all clear what I should use.
    Thanks in advance for your input.
    Mike
    P.S. Anyone near 21D with a PA22 / 20 that they could let me look at from time to time would be much appreciated.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    251
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    silicone, after painting.. tape off just like you would to apply a color paint stripe, remove tape right away..

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    900
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I STRONGLY disagree with using silicone (Sorry, Mike...truly. I just feel that strongly about it). It's crap, it doesn't do the job you want from it, it's the "wrong stuff" chemically, and it is RIDICULOUS for the next guy to remove. The "right stuff" is available from LPAero. It's a "tar" tape, never ever hardens up in place, is a relative JOY to work with, simply DOES NOT EVER LEAK, it reasonable to work with and forty years from now will still be acceptably NOT difficult for the "next guy" to remove. Yes, it is a tad "too good" when it comes time to restore the trim pieces (hangs on unbelievably well) but still it's scared shirtless when you go after it with lacquer thinner and wipes right off. Silicone sux, and the "next guy" will damn your eyes for using it (too bad it never turns out that the guy that put it there is the guy that gets screwed by having to remove it). You can trim it on the backing (if desired) with [even] Kid Scissors, and when you are all done, even the most unfortunate "whoops!" cleans right up (fingers, too). It doesn't kill you to work with it, and is environmentally the right choice.

    Next time, I'll try to be a little more CLEAR about how I actually FEEL about "sealing" with silicone. The tar tape (LPAero calls it "Piper glass sealing tape") is the preferred method. Try it, you'll like it. They don't give it away, but its worth every penny in EVERY respect. Next best product is automotive "ribbon caulk" (there's even a hardware store product known as "TiteSeal" and similar takeoff names -like Mor Tite, et c) that beats silicone hands down. It DOES eventually "dry out", however, unlike the Bear ribbon caulk. DO NOT get the new "epoxy stuff", but the age old stuff that Bear made famous and NAPA still sells. Comes gray or black with four or five or so ribbons tacked together, on a roll between backing paper. The ribbons can put it between two pieces of wax paper and rolled out with a kitchen wooden roller to make thin tape-like strips. Just a bit more tedious than using the tar tape, but better than trying to remove silicone from a windshield bottom strip twenty years down the road.

    [EDIT] Piper Black Tar Tape 1/16" x 1" x 50' SP-TT50
    Last edited by JohnW; 08-02-2011 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Add LP Aero p/n

  4. #4
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Graham, Texas, United States
    Posts
    10,568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    From LP Aeroplastics. http://www.lpaero.com/accessories.html
    I
    have been using the Bostik 1100.

  5. #5
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Germantown, Tennessee 01TN
    Posts
    2,709
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Amen to Johnw's feeling about silicone. Detroit loves it because they can squirt it on in place of proper gaskets. It has no place in an airplane.

  6. #6
    ysifly2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    269
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I used a butyl 'tape' that I found at a local RV store. They had a couple different sizes.
    Got the idea from an EAA hints video... http://bcove.me/lepkt3he


    Bryan

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    251
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I guess its like a political thing.. people get told it's bad, and accept/believe it....

    i have heard the grumblings, but NEVER in almost 25 years seen a single problem, many of my jobs are 15-20 years old now...

    all I have ever used, and seen used by the high end shops is silicone for windows....

    the only place it is not good is across the top of a cessna windshield, since the cabin slides side to side to much for any dried sealer to hold....

    I do use that 3m strip caulk under windshield strips, but that's not to seal the window in just to seal strips to the boot cowl......

  8. #8
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Graham, Texas, United States
    Posts
    10,568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Mike, Have you not ever had any adhesion issues with silicone? I did and started using the Bostik urethane upon LP Aero Plastics recommendation.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    251
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Mike, Have you not ever had any adhesion issues with silicone? I did and started using the Bostik urethane upon LP Aero Plastics recommendation.
    no problems, but I only use dow corning stuff in the dark green tubes from AIH, maybe its a brand issue...... I don't like much of the stuff lowes and home depot sells...

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    900
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Mike, there are silicones and there are silicones. When you say something like: "silicone, after painting", MOST people without vast aircraft experience think of the clear or white stuff that Lowes sells for caulking your bathtub. Many others think of "blue silicone" or "red silicone", or the "high tech copper" colored [crap] that hang from a hook in a discount auto parts store. Some may even outdo that and think you are saying "Krylon first {no primer necessary}".

    There is a Lycoming approved "silicone" (GE RTV-102) that is approved for crankcase parting lines at overhaul. It is a completely different animal from GE tub and tile caulk. I'm POSITIVE that you know this, but you need to be cognizant that the person(s) you are talking to MIGHT NOT HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCE as you (some, maybe more). You wouldn't KNOWINGLY use a product (a second time, for sure) that obviously was not designed for the task of sealing machined surfaces built to NOT have a gasket! But RTV-102 is WHITE from the tube, and could be mistaken by the uninitiated as "being the same thing".

    Hey! I GOT some "dow corning stuff in the dark green tubes" (but what's a AIH? and is that relevant?). DC 4!!! Is THAT what you mean? That's a silicone, it's clear, and it's dielectric. (Jeesh!!!) You getting my meaning yet? I'm trying to learn something here. You are making us "pull teeth".

    So, howsabout you zero in on "what stuff" you DO use for sealing windows on lightplanes? Like by Manufacturer's Part Number (or something we can USE!). Maybe even some of us that DO THIS on a daily basis for fifty years may learn of a "better product".

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •