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Thread: Vagabond Gross weight increase

  1. #21

    Default Re: Vagabond Gross weight increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I think the Vagabond would be a great plane to build new as an LSA like Legend did the J3.
    Me too, but that sort of puts you into a Wagabond. Which which leads you to a 2+2, or Sportsman, (Clipper).

  2. #22

    Default Re: Vagabond Gross weight increase

    Got my marching order from the FAA. Need as many examples of PA15
    Gross weight increases, I have 3 now, N4669H, N4534H, and C-FINC.
    Gilbert, does yours have any documentation?
    Anybody have "the letter" from Wes Holmes, Service Manager, Piper Aircraft,
    Lock Haven, PA approving the increase?
    Dave
    Last edited by d.grimm; 01-23-2012 at 07:39 PM.

  3. #23
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Germantown, Tennessee 01TN
    Posts
    1,298

    Default Re: Vagabond Gross weight increase

    Dave,
    Unfortunately the only documentation I have is a log book entry in 1950 that they installed dual controls with Piper parts. That would be consistent with the TCDS item. It was still listed as a PA-15 until January of 54.

    In 1951 relicense it was a PA15. No entries in 52 or 53.

    In January 54 is a 337 to rebuild the airplane. The 337 lists it as a PA17 for the first time and FAA Relicense form of the same date lists it as a PA17. The relicense form lists the gross wt. as 1150 lbs. I have the FAA CD that does not help much. N4331H

    That is all I have.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Vagabond Gross weight increase

    Dave,
    The guy I bought my PA-17 from (actually I got if from the insurance company wrecked but) , also had a beautiful -15 with colt wings, 36 gal fuel, full IFR panel, leather interior, and from what I could see, if he actually sat in it, it was over gross. He was a real big guy. I think to stay legal he could have about five gal of fuel on board. Beautiful though.
    Jim

  5. #25

    Default Re: Vagabond Gross weight increase

    Well good news thanks to Gilbert.
    Looks like a Model change is a lot easier than the dreaded gross weight increase.
    My FAA guy (bless his heart) found a pre 1955, 337 for a model change to a PA17.
    Working on the Field Approval/337 now for the sex change from PA15 to PA17 and the resulting gross weight increase.
    Dave
    Last edited by d.grimm; 02-17-2012 at 07:21 AM. Reason: opps! sent to wrong place

  6. #26

    Default Re: Vagabond Gross weight increase

    Looks like a gross weight increase by model change.
    Dave

  7. #27

    Default Re: Vagabond Gross weight increase

    Quote Originally Posted by d.grimm View Post
    My FAA guy (bless his heart) found a pre 1955, 337 for a model change to a PA17.
    That sounds like the kind of FAA guy we all need to know.

  8. #28
    Bob Mac's Avatar
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    Oct 2009
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    285

    Default Re: Vagabond Gross weight increase

    You ain't kidding. Where is this guy?

  9. #29

    Default Re: Vagabond Gross weight increase

    "I am looking for a Piper Letter dated 11-15-67"
    Not the same date but seems to say the right thing. (Check Attachments)
    Ran across this doing a record check on a Vag that Dave Grimm talked with owner about the GW increase.
    I got the CD from FAA on this airplane and letter did not accompany the 337.


    Quote Originally Posted by d.grimm View Post
    Since Piper was so happy to send me a e-mail about the support they can offer/sell I thought I would give them a try

    Dear Sir:

    We have searched our archives and Piper Service Memos, Bulletins,
    Letters and Service Spares Letters and are unable to find such a letter
    or approval from Piper with any reference to increasing the gross weigh
    on the Piper PA15. Piper is unable to find or recreate a letter written
    in 1967 on this subject. We have researched the FAA TCDS (please copies
    attached above) and noted that item # 211 on the PA15 TCDS # A-800
    refers to installation of two shock struts per Piper installation
    drawing # 11550 (copy of drawing attached above) but there is no
    reference to this installation increasing the gross weight in our
    records and reports or in the FAA TCDS.

    Because of our company's history and the number of years since the
    letter was written, Piper is unable to substantiate such a letter and
    the details involved for a gross weight increase. In order to accomplish
    an increase you would need some type of approval form the FAA in the
    form of a STC or 337 field approvals. Piper would unable to participate
    in this type of approval.

    Regards,
    Customer Services
    Piper Aircraft, Inc.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:52 PM
    To: airframe
    Subject: PA15 gross weight

    I am looking for a Piper Letter dated 11-15-67 stating that the PA15
    with the PA 17 shock cord gear system allows a 1150 lb gross weight. I
    have Field Approvals from two different aircraft referencing this letter
    for the PA17 gross weight when equipped with the shock strut landing
    gear.
    Could you give me cost and availability?
    Thank You,
    David Grimm
    P.S. I wouldn't normally bother, however I did just receive a e-mail
    about product support and engineering.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Progress is our most important problem"

  10. #30

    Default Re: Vagabond Gross weight increase

    Andy, can you obtain/scan a hard/PDF copy of this letter?

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