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Thread: Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

  1. #1
    dplunkt's Avatar
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    Default Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

    Has anyone developed these for thier pa-22? I'd like to have this for my own records, even if I have to adjust it for my specific plane.

    Dan

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    dcflyer84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

    I, too, would like to have some accurate data for my PA20-150. My owners handbook only has numbers for a PA20-125 as it states 'numbers for the PA20-135 were not available at time of publication.'. What is FAA approved? I realize using the numbers in the book are the more conservative, but there must be something better out there. Does anyone use 22-150 numbers as a close proximation? If so, would your local FSDO approve?

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    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

    My PA22-15-/160 Owners Manual has the following:

    Take-off Run 1220 ft 150 hp 1120 ft 160 hp both with Flaps Extended
    Take-off over a 50" barrier 1600 ft 150 hp 1480 160 hp both with Flaps Extended
    Landing Roll 500 ft 150 hp has an astrix which denotes flaps extended on the 150 hp model only with the same 500 ft. for the 160 hp without the astrix.
    Landing Distance Over 50' barrier 1280 ft 150 hp has an astrix which denotes flaps extended on the 150 hp model only with the same 1280 ft. for the 160 hp without the astrix.
    I assume they accidently left the astrix out.
    Best rate of climb speed mph 84 150 hp and 160 hp
    Rate of climb (ft. per min.) 725 150 hp 800 160 hp
    Best angle of climb speed MPH 70 150 hp and 160 hp
    best angle of climb (ratio) 1:11 150 hp and 1:10 160 hp
    Service Ceiling 15,000 150 hp 16,500 160 hp
    Absolute Ceiling 17,500 150 hp and 19,000 160 hp
    Fuel consumption gal./hr. 75% power is 9 for both engines
    cruise range 492 150 hp 500 160 hp
    performance figures are for standard airplanes flown at gross weight under standard conditions at sea level.

  4. #4
    dcflyer84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    My PA22-15-/160 Owners Manual has the following:

    Take-off Run 1220 ft 150 hp 1120 ft 160 hp both with Flaps Extended
    Take-off over a 50" barrier 1600 ft 150 hp 1480 160 hp both with Flaps Extended
    Landing Roll 500 ft 150 hp has an astrix which denotes flaps extended on the 150 hp model only with the same 500 ft. for the 160 hp without the astrix.
    Landing Distance Over 50' barrier 1280 ft 150 hp has an astrix which denotes flaps extended on the 150 hp model only with the same 1280 ft. for the 160 hp without the astrix.
    I assume they accidently left the astrix out.
    Best rate of climb speed mph 84 150 hp and 160 hp
    Rate of climb (ft. per min.) 725 150 hp 800 160 hp
    Best angle of climb speed MPH 70 150 hp and 160 hp
    best angle of climb (ratio) 1:11 150 hp and 1:10 160 hp
    Service Ceiling 15,000 150 hp 16,500 160 hp
    Absolute Ceiling 17,500 150 hp and 19,000 160 hp
    Fuel consumption gal./hr. 75% power is 9 for both engines
    cruise range 492 150 hp 500 160 hp
    performance figures are for standard airplanes flown at gross weight under standard conditions at sea level.
    Thanks, Steve!!! I'll extrapolate from there.
    Dale

  5. #5
    dcflyer84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

    Steve, is the flaps extended meaning one notch of flaps or full flaps for the takeoff numbers? Since the same terminology is used for the landing, it has me curious.

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    Default Re: Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

    It is my understanding that the POH is referring to Full (two notches) flaps.

    I found these two charts once upon a time somewhere online. They appear to be old Australian documents from the best I could find searching the web. I have not had a chance to test them to see how accurate they are. The charts specify for a PA22-150 with a O-320-Aseries engine. Use at you own risk... I would test them before using them
    pa_22_150_chart_take_off-a.jpgpa22_150_chart_landing-a.jpg

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

    Just figured out that I found them on Andy's site: http://home.earthlink.net/~andy2220/id4.html

  8. #8
    dcflyer84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

    Perfect! I had just about pulled the trigger last night on an order for a pa22 manual from Spruce but had second thoughts thinking someone from shortwing would come through. You have done excellently! Thanks for digging this up and sharing. I will pour over the chart and check numbers before relying on them.

    The approach speeds seem awfully slow to me, but I'm still getting used to my Pacer's handling. I don't have any plans for super short strips with high obstacles, but having the info and being able to fly that profile will come in handy for the toolbox of skills.

    Edit: hmmm...can't seem to figure out how to read those charts. The layout is not what I'm used to seeing because of where you end up. I cant seem to make it work for all combos of field elev and temp either. The whole "distance available" has me confused.

    Would you be willing to just scan the applicable pages out of your -22-150 manual so I can at least have tabular data to interpolate from? I can take that and create a chart similar to the one you sent but have it be more traditional in its reading.

    Thanks again, Steve! (oops! I mean Burk)
    Last edited by dcflyer84; 06-08-2012 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Additional comments

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

    Our authorities here in Australia (called The Department of Civil Aviation then) developed from the British system and always thought they knew better than anyone else about flying and maintaining aircraft. Each aircraft had it's own 'approved' manual, and those charts were part (and the best part) of it. A new type coming to Australia had to be flight tested and those performance charts above were generated from the flight test data. A few years back we went to 'manufacturer's data' and POH --the old system cost too much to keep going!
    The charts are quite straight forward to use, but the speeds are in knots, not mph, and temperature in degrees celsius (centigrade). The distance is over 50ft for takeoff and landing, and is factored for a safety margin. Technically, the airfield elevation should be with 29.92 on the altimeter (we use 1013). The information box bottom left gave flap settings etc. Later charts had corrections for long grass, runway slope etc.
    Enter the top left graph with airfield elevation, go up to temperature, and run a line across. Enter the bottom graph with weight, go across to wind component, and up to meet the first line. Where they intersect will give you the distance.
    In fact if you have any four of the above bits of info, you can solve for the fifth. eg if you have elevation, temperature, strip length, and weight, you can work out the required wind component.
    You could also read off the correct speed to use determined by weight on some charts.
    I'll be printing these off for my PA22--I can't read the Piper version in my POH, and I know these will be accurate and safe. Thanks.

  10. #10
    dcflyer84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Takeoff and Landing distance graphs

    Thanks, mate! It's more comforting that they are flight tested numbers. Also thanks for the turorial in using them. I had tried doing it the way you described before but wasn't coming up with what seemed like legitimate numbers. I've tried again since your post and the numbers are better but still not exactly what I would have expected nor can I find solutions for all temp/elev combos without just using the baseline grid outline. Either way, its better than what I have in my poh for a 125 up engine vs. the -150 that i have installed.
    thanks again!

    update: I printed out the charts and tabulated the data for some common scenarios/temps/elev. The numbers seem reasonable enough. I'll be adding them to my clipboard with checklists and W&B forms. Good stuff!
    Last edited by dcflyer84; 06-08-2012 at 10:02 PM. Reason: additional comments

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