Welcome! Becoming a registered user of ShortWingPipers.Org is free and easy! Click the "Register" link found in the upper right hand corner of this screen. It's easy and you can then join the fun posting and learning about Short Wing Pipers!

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 83

Thread: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

  1. #61
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Germantown, Tennessee 01TN
    Posts
    4,427
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

    Let us know how that works out next summer.

  2. #62
    rocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Talkeetna AK
    Posts
    988
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

    Wanted to add that a well running O320 properly operated stays cool in all manor of baffle conditions: the good, the bad, and the ugly.

    Back in my VW engine days everyone wanted me to add a bigger oil pump or an extra cooler when the problem had nothing to do with oil cooling. Some people were going to blow up an air cooled engine regardless, smoked a type II myself drafting a semi at over 70mph for almost three hours.

    Mostly there was another problem and the engine was just used up.


    Rocket

  3. #63

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    457
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

    Just want to point out that oil temp will trend with but not directly reflect the engine cylinder head temps. The other issue with higher oil temps is you may need to increase you oil pressure if you run in the above 200 degree range. Just be careful you do not have too high of a pressure with cold oil.
    DENNY

  4. #64
    CamTom12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    757
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket View Post
    Wanted to add that a well running O320 properly operated stays cool in all manor of baffle conditions: the good, the bad, and the ugly.
    I think it has more to do with your lattitude. Mine had no cooling issues until I brought it south and temps warmed up. I think it's running pretty well, and its only ~170 hrs old. Baffle seals are crap though.

  5. #65
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Graham, Texas, United States
    Posts
    15,454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

    Quote Originally Posted by CamTom12 View Post
    I think it has more to do with your lattitude. Mine had no cooling issues until I brought it south and temps warmed up. I think it's running pretty well, and its only ~170 hrs old. Baffle seals are crap though.
    I agree after having high oil temps on a new engine. Learned a lot when we installed a manometer and started doing some testing. A lot of info in this thread.

    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...ure-Experience

  6. #66
    Homer Landreth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Peoria Arizona
    Posts
    647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Landreth View Post
    I certainly like the aspect of " if the Oil Temp stays within acceptable parameters then that is all that matters." That is uncommon simplicity from the FAA.
    Anyway, I never did really like the two oil coolers on my plane and since I have finally reached the status of "somewhat retired" I think I will take the baffle mounted one off in my new found spare time.
    With a huge "Mea Culpa" , I change my position and attitude on this subject.
    I went to the Super Cub WEB site that Steve referenced (Thank You Sir for that) and read the entire train and found it interesting and impressive to say the least. Now, copying from that thread, I find complete agreement with this Gentleman's statement:

    Bear in mind that Lycoming's certified CHT limit is 500 *F. We all know that a continual operation above 400*F will reduce cylinder life considerably. So, as long as Piper's test data fell below this 500*F limit the certification requirements would have been satisfied. We, collectively should strive to improve the cooling so as to fall below the 400* threshold during most operations. This is not difficult, but there should be an STC issued for the "new" baffle system. The STC does not need a FAA-PMA if there are only drawings issued. The parts could be built as "owner built parts". Any parts built for sale would require a FAA-PMA.

    In view of the fact that the Super Cub thread ended with the cause of the high oil temperature being Baffling and Air Flow, and in consideration of the intent of the above statement, I change my previous thoughts and statements to be having total amazement and disbelief that the FAA granted Field Approvals (337s previously attached) and subsequently an STC, for the relocating of the Oil Cooler WITHOUT (emphasis on the word WITHOUT) requiring a complete drawing detail and test data to substantiate the "new" baffling arrangement.
    Anyway I am certainly going to work up different paperwork for my plane and will take a lot harder look at airworthiness of any "modified" baffling on future annuals I conduct.
    Thanks again to Steve for the reference to that test activity.

    Homer

  7. #67
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Graham, Texas, United States
    Posts
    15,454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

    The STC for the rear mounted oil cooler had to go through the entire flight test program for noise, cooling and performance as well as an installation conformity inspection along with approved drawing etc.

    Bear in mind that Lycoming's certified CHT limit is 500 *F. We all know that a continual operation above 400*F will reduce cylinder life considerably. So, as long as Piper's test data fell below this 500*F limit the certification requirements would have been satisfied. We, collectively should strive to improve the cooling so as to fall below the 400* threshold during most operations. This is not difficult, but there should be an STC issued for the "new" baffle system. The STC does not need a FAA-PMA if there are only drawings issued. The parts could be built as "owner built parts". Any parts built for sale would require a FAA-PMA.
    This statement is in response to the modifications Fobjob made to his baffles. Not the STC for moving the cooler. You would have to know Fobjob and see his airplane to really understand I think.

  8. #68
    Homer Landreth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Peoria Arizona
    Posts
    647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    The STC for the rear mounted oil cooler had to go through the entire flight test program for noise, cooling and performance as well as an installation conformity inspection along with approved drawing etc.


    This statement is in response to the modifications Fobjob made to his baffles. Not the STC for moving the cooler. You would have to know Fobjob and see his airplane to really understand I think.
    My reference is to the action of altering the baffle structure. The above citation was in consideration of CHT, the referenced STC and Field approvals for the Oil Cooler re-location in consideration of Oil Temperature also altered the baffle structure. Same activity, but different purpose yet sympathetic dependencies exist. As such I developed the opinion that why the baffle structure was modified is irrelevant, the new modification for oil temperature should have had the same attention to documenting the exact equipment content, the detailed required testing and detailed documentation of the alteration of the baffles that the CHT purposes had. Actually, the liberal aspect of the Field Approval is slightly more acceptable than the STC, because it applies only to the documented aircraft. The STC approval applies to other than a that single aircraft. I noted in the thread what there seemed to be different aircraft TMS and different Exhaust systems and different component location, which may result in one or more variants to the modification that is not controlled, one being no specific detail as to where exactly to locate the Oil Cooler. I just developed the feeling that if I observed those noted issues, I would want a little more clarity on how the modification was done, and how it was verified as to whether it works or not.
    Last edited by Homer Landreth; 01-28-2016 at 04:09 PM.

  9. #69
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Graham, Texas, United States
    Posts
    15,454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

    You lost me Homer. Are we talking about the modification to the baffle to install the oil cooler?

  10. #70
    Homer Landreth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Peoria Arizona
    Posts
    647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: O-320 Oil Cooler Baffle STC

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    You lost me Homer. Are we talking about the modification to the baffle to install the oil cooler?
    I guess I didn't get all of that out very clear. Basically what I am saying is that in the evolution of heat, heat can be caused by poor oil cooling, or oil can be overheated by poor airflow around the engine components. (Kind of a chicken or egg question, which came first?) Therefore, I think that baffle modification beyond the OEM layout needs better description of why it was done, how to do it, and documented delta test results. Basically, I got over verbose about saying that after following that thread on the SC site I got a "born again" moment and that In the future, if I see a modified baffle structure, I am going to ask a group of questions about CHT, Oil Temps, Engine History, and Documentation. I am going to want to know what I don't know about the mod.
    Thanks for your time in trying to follow my circuitous verbosity.

    Homer

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •