Welcome! Becoming a registered user of ShortWingPipers.Org is free and easy! Click the "Register" link found in the upper right hand corner of this screen. It's easy and you can then join the fun posting and learning about Short Wing Pipers!
-
New guy, contemplating "to buy".
Hello everyone, I am new here, been reading here for about a week.
First a bit about myself. I have been flying for over 40 years. I am getting back into GA after being out of it for about 25 years (there were a couple of short forays back into GA during that time). I am recently retired, so now I have the time to have some fun flying!
i have no experience with Shortwing Pipers as of yet. I was getting checked out in a Citabria at KEIK about a month ago and after my lesson noticed a Shortwing on the ramp. I didn't know enough to know what it was but went to look it over. It was a Pacer. Amazingly, the next day I saw the same airplane listed for sale on Barnstormers. It was Punkin's (Scott's) airplane!
My hoped for mission with an airplane includes the usual short local 'mental health' flights, $100 hamburgers, and $150 breakfasts. However, the big thing I want to do, is get into some 'airplane camping'. I have Galen Hanselman's guidebooks for Utah, Montana, and Idaho. And there are a few places to go here in Colorado. I always thought that I would like a Husky or maybe a Scout for this kind of flying (but the Lotto has not yet been kind)! Then, after spotting Scott's PA-22/20, I started noticing threads at BCP and Supercubs.org about the Pacer and how much 'bang for the buck' they are. Hence, how I came to be here, on this forum.
I have learned a lot already, reading on this forum. Buying a plane with the modifications one wants already installed, rather than buying a 'mostly stock' airplane and then going through the time and expense of adding the STC's. (This is why I think Scott's plane is not for me, as nice as it is. I want 150 or 160 hp.) I don't have much experience with fabric airplanes, so am concerned about fabric lifetime. Also Aviation Consumer (in their report on Tri-Pacers) mentioned possible issues with airframe corrosion, therefore this issue concerns me. Should I look for an airplane like the one now on Barnstormers in MD, that had a complete airframe restoration in 2014? Or is compliance with the door frame SB (can't remember the number) and a good pre-buy inspection sufficient?
Another thought, I have read about how much everyone enjoys their Pacer. Also, I have read threads where the owner bought a Pacer before even knowing how to fly, and then learning in it. I have not flown a Shortwing. I have about 70 hours of tail wheel time, Cessna 140, Champ, Luccombe 8E, and Citabria. Should I find some way to get some Pacer experience before pursuing a purchase?
i apologize for the long, rambling post, but I would appreciate anyone's input and advice. As I said before, I have already learned a lot from the expertise on this forum. This is a great community and I look forward to being a part of it.
Thanks, Mike
-
Re: New guy, contemplating "to buy".
Welcome to the board Mike....
Like you have said, I urge you to take your time selecting an airplane, and make sure it's got what you want. I recommend 150HP as a minimum. I have 125HP in mine, and that works fine at sea level and in the winter time here in Edmonton, but during the summer it isn't so good. I do like the 6.5 gals/hr though.
Recent Fabric... say within the last 15 yrs, Sealed wing struts would be nice, SB 819 done would be fantastic, and some modern radios would be nice too. The area that the airplane has lived in (or spent most of it's life in) is important too. Something from the coast is going to have more problems with corrosion than an aircraft that lives in Arizona (those ones could have cooked and crusty interiors, and are less likely to have corrosion.)
These things are 50-60 years old so most will have some issues to deal with. Cream puffs are out there, but they will be expensive. I might suggest you spend more initally, to save on the nickel and diming you to deathhhhhh later.
These are fun little airplanes, and if you take the back seat out, you can haul a good load in them...plenty of camping gear will fit.
Be mindful of Density Altitude with these things, when the temp goes up performance drops in a hurry. You should also get a check out with someone as the short couple of the Pacer can bite you if your feet are lazy....A Taylorcraft they are not.
-
Re: New guy, contemplating "to buy".
Mike,
Welcome.
The first Pacer I remember noticing, didn't know what it was at the time, was in Iguigig Alaska. Was a little rough,flat red, no spinner and big enough to seat four. Left rear door and a front right door. Neat little airplane I thought. Three guys jumped in, taxied out and off they went. No back taxi...three big guys....zip gone....kind of like flying a big bore spam can empty and alone. So yeah....find one with the 150 or 160 hp....a 180 horse would be nice too! I bought a 125 hp Pacer nearly three years ago. Put nearly 100 hours in it before it became a project six months after puchase... Sure miss flying it...especially when lightly loaded. Flying a friends Citabria and a Cardinal not quite the same enjoyment... I'm almost done with the restoration including a 160 hp 320. Looking forward to zippy fun with the bigger engine, bigger tires......before I forget. The fabric was in good shape, the last recover was 1980. The only thing fuggly was the paint peeling off the sheet metal here an there.
Mark M.
Platinum Ak.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
Re: New guy, contemplating "to buy".
Take your time do your homework enjoy the adventure you will have a lot of fun there's a lot of great advice on this form good luck Steve
-
Administrator
Re: New guy, contemplating "to buy".
Welcome Mike, I might be biased but I think the Pacer is the perfect airplane for your mission. Love flying, camping and exploring the Utah and Idaho back country. I learned to fly in a Short Wing so I am probably biased in that regard as well. Here is a thread on the door frame corrosion.
http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum...rame-Corrosion
-
Re: New guy, contemplating "to buy".
Welcome!
I also love my shortwing. I've got some time in the "larger" small cessnas (185/206) and a 150. While those are great aircraft (and the bigger ones can HAUL a load), when Gilbert took me up for my first ride in his sweet, sweet Clipper I knew I was making the right decision. I've never regretted my purchase. Maybe down the road if my passenger carrying mission gets bigger (i.e. - kids) I might have to upgrade to something larger, but you can bet I'll be trying to justify keeping two planes so I won't have to sell my shortwing.
Good luck in your search!
-
Re: New guy, contemplating "to buy".
IMHO sb819 isn't as scary as it sounds. I just did that one while doing a tail wheel conversion. It never had it done and the tubing under the sheet metal was only pitted, not even heavily at that! Replaced tubes anyway seeming as I was there. Also the one and only time (according to the logbooks) that it had a fuselage recover was when it had polyfiber put on it in 1966! It was ugly but holding up fine. I guess what I'm getting at is that these issues seem to have more to do with how well the aircraft was taken care of than anything.Also 1956 and newer will have a 2000lb gross and already have a 150 or 160hp motor if you feel like you need those extra pounds.
-
Re: New guy, contemplating "to buy".
M,
I think our birds really are the best bang for the buck but it really depends on the pilot being "handy". If not you should round up a fabric and Pacer friendly A&P cause almost no one can afford to train one.
Rocket
-
Re: New guy, contemplating "to buy".
Welcome Mike,
You have found a great forum with a wealth of knowledge. My advise (free and worth every bit as much as you paid for it) is to keep reading and learning as much as you can on here and ask questions if you have them. That way when you find the one you think you are interested in you will be able to ask some of the right questions about it and decide if you want to pursue a pre buy or second opinion. Good luck.
Wes
-
Bill Nyman
Re: New guy, contemplating "to buy".
Mike there is a recently overhauled pa22/20 with 160 hp engine for sale in MD..
call Steve at 443-504-4538
Asking 28500.00
Bill
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
-
Forum Rules