Flying With Rear Door Removed

[dcflyer84]

UPDATE: Lots has happened since my last post on this. Here's the latest: I purchased the STC from WagAero, as I previously said. An STC IS required because the TCDS does not allow a PA20 to operate with the door removed. Okay...The STC is very basic and has very little wording on for future removals/reinstallations. It does contain written removal and re-installation instructions for the door and for jumper lines. I was now confused as to whether I could do subsequent removals on my own with a logbook entry or if I needed to have a 337 EVERY time. So, I call my local FSDO again. This time the man I've been working with is out of town, so I talked to the ones covering for him--they said no, I could not do removals/reinstalls myself as an owner with just a logbook entry. Bummer. But wait, there's more...The inspector with whom I had been dealing gets back in town and returns my voicemail and we talk about it some more. Through discussion, it is determined that this is a minor modification (duh, right?) and I am allowed to do the door manipulations with a logbook entry each time--no A&P needed, no 337s, etc.). BUT, since the STC doesn't contain wording that specifically allows for this, a field approval would be necessary, so send the paperwork to him v. Oak City. He even gave me specific wording for the IA to put into the 337 so it would be correct. So I visited my IA and we went through the paperwork drill of a 337 using the right language, removed and weighed the door and recomputed a 'with door removed' W&B. I have sent the 337s to my FSDO and await their return where the signing.

[andya]

there ya go, two different sets of guidance from two inspectors in the same FSDO.

[Steve Pierce]

The STC is the approval. I have a set of tires approved via field aprovl on a certain airplane. I go back and forth by simply making a logbook entry and I have two weight and balance forms for each pair of tires. One set is approved vis the TCDS and the other via the field approval. Seems to me you have the same thing via an STC.

[dcflyer84]

Got all the paperwork in my hands now with all sign-offs and approvals! Finally. Good thing I started on this months ago before I needed it! Wanted to share what the exact wording ended up being on the 337 that met spec with FSDO for field approval of the additional removals/installs of the door with just a logbook entry:
"Converted aircraft for aerial photography operations in accordance with J. A. Myers' Modification and Restoration Instructions dated 1/26/62 and STC SA25EA. Calculated new weight and balance data for operation with aft door removed. Fabricated and installed placard as required. <here's the important one--> Following STC compliance, door installation and removal will be in accordance with STC instructions and will be documented with log entries in accordance with FAR 43.9." END

[Steve Pierce]

Glad you got it done. A+ for perseverance.

[ysifly2]

...<here's the important one--> Following STC compliance, door installation and removal will be in accordance with STC instructions and will be documented with log entries in accordance with FAR 43.9." END

So... if you were going to remove the door at a location away from your home base, would this mean you should carry your airplane log with you to make the entries in "real" time? Maybe this would be the case for the PA20's with a 337 approval requirement... but what about the PA22's with the supplement? I didn't recall seeing that required in the supplement.

[dcflyer84]

<third shot at thinking this through/replying> Yes, for me, I need to have the airframe logs with me for 'real time' entries as I interpret things. For you, no. You're under a different TCDS and approval structure. You'd have to comply with the wording in your supplement as approved. W&B does change with the door off. Mine weighed in just over 12 lbs. Good news was that the CG/datum of it was the exact same as the datum for 'rear passengers' on the W&B form in the POH. Made the math easy.

[dcflyer84]

on a side note: shameless commerce plug for my new sideline biz: Fly-N-Foto LLC. Going to take full advantage of all this paperwork kerfluffle and use it to my advantage. Check out my website. www.flynfoto.com. If you're in the NC/SC/Southern VA area and need this type of work, I'd welcome the opportunity to give you a quote!

[Steve Pierce]

Cool stuff. Lots of businesses around town have aerial photos of the place hanging on the wall.

[richdolby]

Hi,

I am trying to find out if there's a STC allowing the removal of the rear passenger door on a PA-20, so it can be used as a 'camera-ship' with the photographer sitting in the back??

any help much appreciated.

Thanks,


Rich D.