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Thread: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

  1. #21
    PeterL's Avatar
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    Default Re: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

    Another source to purchase a Short Wing is from the Canadian market. This may seem as complex procedure; i.e.: export - import, Canada to U.S.A., however once one looks into the details it is very straight forward. Guidelines are set by the FAA and TC.

    Some differences that Canadian planes have compared to U.S. are:

    - no 337 forms, which means one can't put on/change features on a plane/ case in point - gap seal kits, (but that's another story).
    - each component has to be overhauled by either an Approved Maintenance Organization, AMO, (these types of companies have the approval and Certs from Transport Canada). Or should the component be sent to the USA, that shop has to approved by TC.
    - any add on's have to have an STC, (same as FAA) plus PMA approvals for other replacement parts

    I agree with Steve, buyer be aware. Do all your checks. I know of a SW that was purchased and imported into Canada just to find that the engine was off an experiment AC, that was a costly error!!!


    Peter Lubig

  2. #22

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    Default Re: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

    Jim, just memories! About all I have left!

  3. #23
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

    I did a prepurchase on a very early Cessna 172 for a friend several years ago. I always look for the actual log book entry for work done to comply with each specific AD. This airplane had a 40-50 year old AD requiring the nose fork be replaced and all I could find were PCW (previously complied with) entries in the AD lists for all those years. After reading the AD and service info we discovered that the nose fork had never been replaced and found one for $300. I saw him recently and we had a laugh about it. He informed me someone else had the same issue and the fork was $2-3000.

    Last edited by Steve Pierce; 01-11-2017 at 07:51 AM.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

    A CD/records review is always a good idea as sometimes a 337 can be sent in but never recorded by the FAA. Spending $10 every couple of years is a lot cheaper than trying to fix it much later - especially in the middle of selling your plane.
    “Seek advice but use your own common sense.”
    ― Yiddish Proverb

  5. #25
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

    You can get them free from the FAA at Sun & Fun and Oshkosh. You fill out a form with N number and address and they mail it to you for free.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

    $70,000
    Steve, I appreciate everything you do with this web site. There is a wealth of information here and a fantastic community always willing to help even for the simplest question about our shortwings.
    As a follow-on to your original post about “The Pre-purchase Inspection, “ let me throw in my two cents as a guy who learned to fly in a Colt in the mid/late ‘60s and an owner of two PA-22s. Most importantly, your pre-buy inspection notes are spot on; after all, we want the best out there for our money.
    Having over 10,000 hours as a retired USAF airplane driver, the idea was to round out my steadily declining career as a pilot in the GA field. The PA-22 was the ultimate choice after owning more expensive aircraft such as the Grumman AA-5B and some Cessna 172s.
    As to the pre-purchase inspection, I doubt the perfect Shortwing is out there. If it is, considering inflation, etc., it would be worth at least $70,000.
    Initial cost
    Most Tri Pacers shown for sale on the web average around $25,000. Yes, you can buy slightly newer airplanes like a Cherokee for around $45,000 or the Tiger for around $60,000 and either spend the cash or borrow the money at interest, insure the value of same and pay the taxes for the privilege of ownership. Cessna aircraft, BTW, are overpriced.
    Once you get out of the rag and tube Pipers you are spending about three times the money for a good three-place-with-baggage airplane. Why not pay $25,000 for the best Tri Pacer you can find and gradually spend some money to install the upgrades you really want?
    Maintenance
    Conventional wisdom says fabric cover is good for twenty years. I say, “Bunk!” My ‘Tripe’ was covered 22 years ago and you cannot find even surface rust through the “Hell Hole,” inspection plates, under floor boards or anywhere and the Ceconite is strong. I do not worry even slightly about the structural integrity of this airplane and I’ve flown it through some turbulence like I never saw in a Lockheed C-141 or C-130.
    After being totally paid for the Tri Pacer costs me about $5,000 a year to maintain to include the hangar rent at $235.00 per month. My A&P allows me to assist in the annuals, which average maybe $600 per year. This frees up some dollars for probably one upgrade each year. One year was the auto fuel STC, another was a spin-on oil filter, another was vortex generators, another for Steve’s rudder trim and this year was ADS-B Out. Each year the airplane gets better.
    Bottom line
    These airplanes are INEXPENSIVE to buy and own and they perform well. When I say INEXPENSIVE let me qualify that by saying ALL airplanes are expensive but, then, that is relative isn’t it? If money is no factor, well, you are on the wrong web site unless you have a soft spot for old, rag-wing airplanes. You worry about recovering? Just set aside $1,000 per year for that purpose, which is probably cheaper than the debt service for the $70,000 or $100,000 airplane you dream of.
    All Tri Pacers, in my opinion, are underpriced. Most of us who own these have spent more in upgrades than we can recover in resale. Still, we will have invested far less than if we had bought the $70,000 airplane advertised on Barnstormers or Trade-A-Plane. And even if you pay the $70,000 plus for the other airplane you had better set aside at least 10% to pay for the things you missed or want to change.
    Back to inflation, Can’t find the price for a basic Tri Pacer in the late 1950s but I seem to recall they were around $7,000.00. Someone please correct me. Nevertheless, my father purchased a new 1962 Impala convertible for something over $3,000. So, could you buy a Chevrolet convertible today for ten times that money? Think not. Connect the dots.
    Difficult decisions, huh?
    Thanks, Steve. Great work.

  7. #27

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    Default Re: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

    I certainly appreciate all the information shared on this site. I soloed in a Colt back 1966 then moved up to tripacers.
    I have flown 150s, 172s, Cherokee, Cheetah, Tigers and a few others. The tripacer is my favorite and I am learning lots from this forum. Thanks to all contributors.

  8. #28

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    Default Re: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

    Great post ......thank you, do you know anyone near Addison Texas who could look over a Pacer for me. Thanks again!

  9. #29
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    Default Re: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

    Steve Pierce in Graham is not far away to your west. Couldn't ask for anyone more knowledgeable and close by
    "Progress is our most important problem"

  10. #30
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: So You Think You Want To Own a Short Wing Piper? The Pre-Purchase Inspection

    I have looked at pictures of that airplane. Pretty impressive other than age. I would start with the paperwork and a lot of high resolution pictures before going over there. Easier and cheaper to weed them out that way.

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