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cook11
02-22-2021, 01:12 PM
Just wondering what LED landing lights you guys are using? I have no idea what's involved with adding LED landing lights and I am hoping someone could steer me in the right direction. Can you use the existing landing light assembly and just replace the bulbs or is it better to replace the old landing light assembly with a new kit? Are there even kits available for LED's? I am interested in the strobe feature I have seen on some aircraft.

Thanks!

Steve Pierce
02-22-2021, 01:26 PM
Google "LED Landing light site:shortwingpipers.org" and you'll find several good threads. https://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/showthread.php?11567-Changing-Landing-Light

Glen Geller
02-22-2021, 02:34 PM
Two options that I have heard have good results in performance, brightness, longevity and reduced electrical load are these:

Regular Output:
https://www.larsenlights.com/par-36s-45-led-light-20-spot
1450 lumen, Current: 1.05A @ 12V, Power: ~15 watt (assuming ~13.4V)
$27

High Output:
https://www.larsenlights.com/high-output-par-36-spot-beam
1700 lumen, Current: 1.8A @ 12V, Power: ~25W (assuming ~13.4V)
$34

In a Tri-Pacer and Pacer, the consensus among those I spoke with was two spots was preferred over flood for landing, spot for taxiing.
The flood was less effective at illuminating the runway on final approach and flare (LL switch to "Both".)

GG

PS:
While you have most of the lamp mounting stuff out, remove all the parts, clean & paint flat black if needed, and reassemble the aft mounts (where the lamp will mount) with the screws pre-installed from the back, and short nylok nuts or nuts with Loctite, good and tight.
Now the threaded end is facing forward! Easy to install the lamp, front plate and nylok nuts up front using a nut driver. Far less colorful language involved.
Or, if you have appropriate skills, hardware, and tools, you could install nutplates on the rear of the fixed mounts.
Of course, with LED lamps you might not have to replace a lamp for ten or twenty years...

andya
02-22-2021, 03:03 PM
Glen

I might be misinterpreting "two spots was preferred over flood for landing, spot for taxiing."
then
"flood was less effective at illuminating the runway on final approach and flare "

So does that mean go with two spots but would use both spots selected on for landing and taxi or just landing?

akflyer
02-22-2021, 03:12 PM
Glen

I might be misinterpreting "two spots was preferred over flood for landing, spot for taxiing."
then
"flood was less effective at illuminating the runway on final approach and flare "

So does that mean go with two spots but would use both spots selected on for landing and taxi or just landing?


I have a spot and flood in each wing. Spot for landing and flood for taxi, but I wired them to run all at once with the twist of the knob, or alternate left and right wig wag for visibility in the air.

Wag-builder
02-22-2021, 03:30 PM
I don't like LED landing lights in the Tripacer. They are like laser beams and will light the far end of a 4500' runway, but not the sides. I was hit by a deer on landing because he ran across the runway under the focused beam of light and I had no idea what hit the plane. Yes, they are brighter and use less current, but if they do not illuminate the runway they are useless at night. But to answer your question, they are a drop in replacement.

akflyer
02-22-2021, 03:51 PM
I don't like LED landing lights in the Tripacer. They are like laser beams and will light the far end of a 4500' runway, but not the sides. I was hit by a deer on landing because he ran across the runway under the focused beam of light and I had no idea what hit the plane. Yes, they are brighter and use less current, but if they do not illuminate the runway they are useless at night. But to answer your question, they are a drop in replacement.

You can get various light patterns and a combo of flood and spot make for a seriously good landing light system. Way better than the old standard bulbs.

andya
02-22-2021, 03:55 PM
so from above, almost sounds like with both the spot and flood lit up for landing, that should be pretty good for approach and landing??

Wag-builder
02-22-2021, 04:06 PM
I have one spot and one flood. There is just not a large enough envelope of light for flying at night with only the lights in the left wing. The standard lights aren't as bright, and I cannot see the other end of the runway, but I can see the sides of the runway!

Gilbert Pierce
02-22-2021, 04:54 PM
I think it depends on the light manufacture and how the lense is designed. I get good illumination on the sides from the flood.

Spdcrazy
02-22-2021, 09:22 PM
Larsen lights also makes a “trapezoid” par 36. Both standard and high output. Spot is 20° trapezoid is 40° and flood is 60°

I plan to add a second landing light to my other wing. Will run a spot and a trap on each side. Pirep later. Prob next year. Thanks to summer sun in Alaska.

J Ryd
02-22-2021, 11:32 PM
I installed two regular output spotlights from Larson in the taxi and landing positions. Its gotta be better than th 4509's that ive had to replace 3 times now within about a year. They are only rated for 25hrs. The leds will probably never need changing. I like the idea of a light on the other wing too. Maybe a project for the fall?

Spdcrazy
02-22-2021, 11:53 PM
I was pleasantly surprised at the cost of the cost of plexiglass cover and trim pieces from univair. I bought the housing used for $250. Worth it for the recognition and ability to see when I’m coming home or to camp a bit later than I should

Zac Weidner
02-23-2021, 08:44 AM
I've installed two of these, one on two different Piper aircraft. Although, it's possible it was an earlier version of this bulb. https://www.aero-lites.com/product-page/sunsetter-ultra-g2-landing-light

It's rated at 3,200 lumens vs. a GE4509 at 1,500 lumens. In my experience with LED's on various equipment (airplanes, tractors, cars, sprayers, etc.), It takes more rated "lumens" from an LED to have an equal illumination at distance. LED's are great especially for see-and-avoid because they look bright, but it takes the proper focus to put that light where it needs to be. I'd call the Aero-LED equivalent to maybe slightly better than the GE bulb. I would not consider installing a 1,700 lumen $34 LED on a Tri-Pacer and expect the same results as a 4509, but perhaps some of those ratings are not the whole story? Then again, I also can't see spending hundreds for a Whelen LED. Glen, have you used those from Larsen and had good luck? I have a pair from Larsen in blue on a sprayer boom and it barely lights up the end of a 90' boom (about 40' from the bulb to the tip). That one is supposedly 2,160 lumens.

andya
02-23-2021, 10:25 AM
" It takes more rated "lumens" from an LED to have an equal illumination at distance. LED's are great especially for see-and-avoid because they look bright"

Agree with Zac 100% on this, I find it frustrating at night on the road facing automobiles with the new LED headlights. They are so much brighter to look
at that I think the other driver still has his bright light on, when I flash my lights at him, he flashes his and he actually did have his dims on. I know part of the
problem are my "elderly eyes" but I think it is a problem on the road for vehicles.

JPerkins
02-24-2021, 09:44 AM
I have led (I think whelen) landing and taxi lights in both wings, so two each. I can turn all four on at once and itll light up a field on short final enough to count the petals on the daisies in your touchdown zone. I have them so they can wigwag, helps tremendously with being seen in the pattern.


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Tailwind_Fan
02-24-2021, 08:03 PM
I ordered my Aero Lites G2 from Amazon. Since it was my taxi bulb that went out I got the 45* pattern bulb. I’ve been happy with it, and it’s way brighter than the still incandescent spot beam landing light. It easily replaces the old bulb, same form, fit, and improved function.

-Alana

J Ryd
02-24-2021, 09:04 PM
I have led (I think whelen) landing and taxi lights in both wings, so two each. I can turn all four on at once and itll light up a field on short final enough to count the petals on the daisies in your touchdown zone. I have them so they can wigwag, helps tremendously with being seen in the pattern.
Is the light in both wings with wigwag a field approval thing, experimental, somebodys STC, or??

Steve Pierce
02-25-2021, 07:45 AM
Is the light in both wings with wigwag a field approval thing, experimental, somebodys STC, or??
I do it as a logbook entry duplicating in the right what is on the left. Rebuilding a Super Cub for a friend in the Tulsa area that wants to be seen. Also using the Max Pulse landing light controller which is STC'd. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/1105737_stc.php?clickkey=28439

JPerkins
02-25-2021, 10:31 AM
Is the light in both wings with wigwag a field approval thing, experimental, somebodys STC, or??
What steve said, word for word. I referenced the drawing numbers for the lights.

dgapilot
02-25-2021, 12:36 PM
I do it as a logbook entry duplicating in the right what is on the left. Rebuilding a Super Cub for a friend in the Tulsa area that wants to be seen. Also using the Max Pulse landing light controller which is STC'd. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/1105737_stc.php?clickkey=28439

Steve, just curios how you wire the max pulse with landing/taxi lights in both wings? Both landing lights on one circuit and both taxi on the other, or taxi and landing from each side to one terminal of the max pulse?


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Steve Pierce
02-25-2021, 12:45 PM
It has a terminal for each light from what I remember. been a while since I installed one. https://seatoneng.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/9200-000-A.pdf

andya
02-25-2021, 02:31 PM
A friend of mine has done that, used an old one to make a mold and a pattern to cut the plexiglass or lexan, don't recall which.
I think Brian from Steve's Aircraft has done that before.

ysifly2
02-25-2021, 04:07 PM
I do it as a logbook entry duplicating in the right what is on the left. ...

I’m sure it’s been asked before, but I haven’t found it in the archives yet...

I know it would be absolute best to do when recovering, but is adding a light assembly to the right wing do-able on a covered wing?
What elements would be the most difficult to accomplish on a covered wing ?


Bryan


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dgapilot
02-25-2021, 04:12 PM
Steve, it has Port and Starboard, only two. I'm putting landing lights in both wings and trying to figure the best way to wire the max Pulse. I may do an On/Off for landing lights, and wire the taxi lights to the Max Pulse. They have a wider field of view than the landing lights, so would be better for recognition. Currently planning on going with the Aero-Light Ultra G2. They are 3200 lumen, not as much as the Aero LEDs at 4900 lumens, but a lot better than the real cheap LED that only have 1500 lumens. Interesting thing with most incandescent bulbs, there aren't any PMA as they are commercial parts. For landing lights, there is no Regulatory requirement for them unless operating for hire, so any bulb that is commercially available, fits the mounting and the power draw is acceptable based on circuit protection and wiring is OK to use. Simply a minor alteration. If you are really concerned, then use AC 23-27 as the basis for the substitution. In my case, I included it as part of the overall electrical system change (battery, charging system, all the wiring, ignition switch, starter, SkyBeacon and SkySensor . . .) that got field approved.

andya
02-25-2021, 06:03 PM
In my opinion, the light installation is probably easier than getting the wiring out there....

dgapilot
02-25-2021, 06:14 PM
My wings are uncovered, so running wires is a piece of cake.


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ysifly2
02-25-2021, 06:19 PM
In my opinion, the light installation is probably easier than getting the wiring out there....

Hmmm... I was successful running shelled wire to the tips for my strobe install [emoji4]

On the list of maybe someday then. I do at least have the wig wag with the lights in the left wing.

Bryan


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Steve Pierce
02-26-2021, 07:22 AM
Steve, it has Port and Starboard, only two. I'm putting landing lights in both wings and trying to figure the best way to wire the max Pulse. I may do an On/Off for landing lights, and wire the taxi lights to the Max Pulse. They have a wider field of view than the landing lights, so would be better for recognition. Currently planning on going with the Aero-Light Ultra G2. They are 3200 lumen, not as much as the Aero LEDs at 4900 lumens, but a lot better than the real cheap LED that only have 1500 lumens. Interesting thing with most incandescent bulbs, there aren't any PMA as they are commercial parts. For landing lights, there is no Regulatory requirement for them unless operating for hire, so any bulb that is commercially available, fits the mounting and the power draw is acceptable based on circuit protection and wiring is OK to use. Simply a minor alteration. If you are really concerned, then use AC 23-27 as the basis for the substitution. In my case, I included it as part of the overall electrical system change (battery, charging system, all the wiring, ignition switch, starter, SkyBeacon and SkySensor . . .) that got field approved.
You are wanting to be able to turn all four bulbs on or off separately? I believe what I did before was to wire both bulbs on one wing to one circuit. LEDs don't draw much so having both landing and taxi light on at the same time won't hurt.

dgapilot
02-26-2021, 09:13 AM
You are wanting to be able to turn all four bulbs on or off separately? I believe what I did before was to wire both bulbs on one wing to one circuit. LEDs don't draw much so having both landing and taxi light on at the same time won't hurt.

That’s my other option. I’m going to have to do a load analysis to see what draw I’ll have. Went from the 15 amp gen to the 40 amp B&C alternator, so I’m pretty sure I’ll have plenty, just need to verify.


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cacctus
03-26-2021, 08:06 AM
Your statement about the 4509 is right on target! Anything is better than a light that began its life on a farm tractor.

sierrasplitter
08-22-2022, 02:08 PM
Im about to pull the trigger on new LED Landing/Taxi lights. Plan to use an STC . Yes, I know Im about to get raped. But, Wheelan or AeroLED's? Same price for either 249 dollars per lamp. Need two . One Taxi One Landing ?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/el/landinglights_aeroled/sunspot36lx.php

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/el/landinglights_whelen/whelenparplus362.php

Tailwind_Fan
08-22-2022, 02:12 PM
I purchased my AeroLED taxi and landing lamps from their Amazon page, and they were considerably cheaper… like $120-$140 each… they’re the full aviation version, and are well built with an aluminum heat sink.

No STC required, as they’re direct plug and play, same function same form factor replacements.

-Alana

Wag-builder
08-22-2022, 02:41 PM
Look at AeroLites, same thing only affordable!

sierrasplitter
08-22-2022, 02:46 PM
I purchased my AeroLED taxi and landing lamps from their Amazon page

Cant find the page. I did find AeroLites , but it states Not FAA Approved . Gotta have paperwork

Wag-builder
08-22-2022, 02:49 PM
Cant find the page. I did find AeroLites , but it states Not FAA Approved . Gotta have paperwork

It is a landing light, what paperwork?

Tailwind_Fan
08-22-2022, 04:08 PM
It is a landing light, what paperwork?
Exactly, there’s no paperwork for lightbulbs they’re a form fit and functional drop in replacement. The original bulbs were sourced from agricultural applications.

-Alana

https://www.amazon.com/Landing-Aircraft-Aero-Lites-SunSetter-9-32VDC/dp/B07G7TK5N2/ref=pd_day0fbt_sccl_2/131-5458077-0181860?pd_rd_w=xbOMK&content-id=amzn1.sym.0a3d352f-2699-4ba2-810c-59dcb4abfa1b&pf_rd_p=0a3d352f-2699-4ba2-810c-59dcb4abfa1b&pf_rd_r=MXFQ0BMBTJ54S7A0KR91&pd_rd_wg=5yOe0&pd_rd_r=c295d300-f23a-498f-9fa4-33e849a3a04a&pd_rd_i=B07G7TK5N2&psc=1

Gilbert Pierce
08-22-2022, 05:53 PM
The original lights had no PMA or TSO. Also they are not required equipment.

PA-16
08-22-2022, 07:16 PM
These work great and 28 bucks https://www.larsenlights.com/par-36s-45-led-light-20-spot

J Ryd
08-22-2022, 10:12 PM
These work great and 28 bucks https://www.larsenlights.com/par-36s-45-led-light-20-spotI've got Larsen's in mine. 2 spots instead of one of each. Way better than the original 4509. I'm happy

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sierrasplitter
08-23-2022, 07:14 AM
Ok, so its gonna be the Aero Lites G2 or those Ultra X's. Thanks All.

PA-16
08-23-2022, 07:47 AM
The Larsen lights are BRIGHT and ten times cheaper, have you talked to your IA about them, I have been using the Larsen 20° spot par 36 bulb for four years now, the one Glen mentioned in the 3rd post of this thread, lots of pilots use them in Cessnas as well.