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Stephen
12-02-2007, 01:34 PM
I was helping a friend do some work on his higly modified J-3 yesterday. One of the mods he has are the ailerons connected to the flap mechanism. The ailerons will droop a full 20 degrees. He gets an amazying slow approach speeds. Anyone ever heard of a mod like this on a Pacer?

Steve Pierce
12-02-2007, 01:53 PM
I haven't heard of it on a Pacer but Wayne Mackey in Miles City, MT builds a set for experimental SCs. Should work the same for a Pacer. I will see if I can get some pictures of the installation.

d.grimm
12-03-2007, 07:24 AM
CubCrafters had a system for drooping the ailerons with the flaps. Quite a complex affair and when I was there talking to the shop foreman he said that VG's actually improved the performance more, they were lighter and less complex. Robertson STOL did the same thing and I heard from a friend with a PA24-400 that aileron control suffered with the flaps and ailerons down.

Steve Pierce
12-03-2007, 07:34 AM
Wayne's system allows you to turn off the drooping ailerons and still use the flaps unlike the CC system. His is very simple with a cable saddled to the flap cable. They do limit aileron control in a crosswind.

Stephen
12-03-2007, 09:22 AM
The system I was looking at belonged to Jerry Burr and are his design for his J-3. They also can be adjusted to change the effect on the ailerons. Although, he says he rarely changes the adjustment. He can always choose not to use the flaps and then there is no reduction in aileron effectiveness. The additional cable and pulleys add up to about five additional pounds. Yes, it is more complex than a stock system and whether it is worth the effort, I don't know. Jerry says that everything he installs on his plane must improve STOL characteristics or he would'nt carry them. It seems that a flap/aileron interconnect could be more useful than a rudder/aileron interconnect.

Steve Pierce
12-03-2007, 12:32 PM
Stephen, That is the same system Wayne is using. He and Jerry are friends and have experimented with a lot of STOL devices. I got to meet Jerry and pick his brain at the New Holstein Fly-In this past summer. He is a wealth of information.

About weight on his airplane, he has removed all brass and un-needed washers etc. He even removed some of the VGs on the tail that were not doing anything after he tufted it and video taped them in flight. He is also the guy who got the Micro VGs certified on the Cubs.

yarddart
01-16-2016, 09:26 AM
I wonder which vgs on the tail did not tuff test of test and were removed

DougG
01-17-2016, 11:27 AM
The de Havilland Beaver Otter etc use a drooping aileron with flaps, very effective but can be tricky in a cross wind. In certain settings the into wind wing aileron in a crosswind can only be brought up to neutral and it is difficult to hold that wing down. Hope that makes sense?
DougG

Jim Hann
01-19-2016, 09:41 AM
Back in my CFI days I flew a customer's 182 with a full Robertson kit. 20 degrees of flaps was 10 degrees aileron droop. I agree with all the above comments, it was great but definitely limited crosswind capability. I don't remember if the POH supplement stated that fact though, too many airplanes crammed into my head since then.

Oh, and it took a full boot of rudder even with full right rudder trim if you pulled it off the ground at minimum speed. Still a blast to play with though.

Pacerfgoe
01-19-2016, 03:43 PM
I haven't heard of it on a Pacer but Wayne Mackey in Miles City, MT builds a set for experimental SCs. Should work the same for a Pacer. I will see if I can get some pictures of the installation.

Hey Steve....I know this is a hundred years old, but did you ever get some pics, or perhaps a sketch of how it's done?....

Steve Pierce
01-20-2016, 07:09 AM
A few pictures in this first thread. They are getting away from drooping the ailerons and now installing spoilers for better roll control at slow speeds.

http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?36384-Drooped-ailerons
http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?47089-Drooping-Ailerons-Top-Cub-STOL