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boardmant
02-08-2008, 01:32 PM
Hi. Anyone know what's involved with the Wag-Aero STC for the O320 upgrade for my Colt taildragger? Cowling mods? Also what model of O320 is best suited? Id like to use a "B" model or better with 160 HP if possible...any input appreciated. Thanks Tom

Steve Pierce
02-08-2008, 08:58 PM
Tom, Have you talked to Wagaero? I wondered if there was someone there that knew much about the STC. We put the O-320-B in a Clipper with the oil cooler mounted on the rear baffle. This was all done on a field approval. If your FSDO is somewhat reasonable you can probably get approvals on some of the more popular engine installation mods if they aren't incorporated in the STC. I have pictures of the oil cooler and engine installation. Built a stock lower cowl which was just like a Pacer.

boardmant
02-09-2008, 09:16 AM
Hey Thanks for the reply. Wagaero said it would have to be an O320 "A" or "B" model with an oil cooler installed and the nose bowl modified. The STC is around $150. Sounds like the original cowling will work but the nosebowl modification is the unknown. Also, which "A" or "B" model? Does it matter? Thanks again. Tom ;)

Airwrench
02-18-2008, 12:38 PM
The cowling mod is probably the addition of the oil cooler scoop. A question though, dose this STC apply to a standard PA-22-108 or dose it have to be converted to a taildragger first? I know that that is the preresiquite for the 0-360 upgrade on the PA-22's. - Bryant

stevesaircraft(Bri)
02-18-2008, 01:34 PM
The only reason a PA-22 has to be converted to conventional gear for a 0-360 engine is because the carburetor on a 0-360 is 3 inches lower and farther forward than the 0-320. This puts the airbox right in the middle of the nose gear strut. We are considering doing the 0-360 constant speed conversion on our PA-22 Tripacer utilizing a airbox that pulls the intake air from the side. Similar to a Cherokee system. Another one of those "one of these days" projects.

As far as the -108 conversion. For a 0-320, it can be left in the standard or conventional gear. You are basically bolting up firewall forward the same as a standard PA-22 with 0-320 installation. I would look for a good nose bowl with the oil cooler scoop already installed or do a field approval for rear oil cooler on the baffle and leave the stock nose bowl on.

Brian.

Bob Jagodzinski
02-18-2008, 04:31 PM
Why must the oil cooler be mounted on the chin? The O235 doesn't have an oil cooler so to my way of thinking, it could be mounted on the rear baffle or firewall if room. That is unless the STC states that the oil cooler must be mounted on the chin. Using the Colt nose bowl provides for a very neat installation.
Bob PA16 N5656H

Jim
02-18-2008, 10:25 PM
Hi,

.......Why must the oil cooler be mounted on the chin?

Because you're doing a mod that copies what Piper would have done originally. If you don't want to put the cooler in the chin, you're going to need some additional paper work. Even thinking about an under the chin install is crazy.

Zac Weidner
05-20-2012, 09:59 PM
I'm posting this for Bob at the maintenance base at Litchfield airport. He says he has a customer with a Colt that has a problemsome O-235. Rusted cylinders, bad cam, and some other things. Anyway, he's looking to upgrade to either an O-290 or O-320 with an STC. It sounds like the O-290 is getting hard to find parts for, so I doubt he'd want that, but he was just wondering if there is an STC for this upgrade on a Colt. I've read plenty on upgrading from O290 to O-320, but not much about going from an O-235.

I saw one old post about a Wag-Aero STC, but I couldn't find any information on their site.

Steve Pierce
05-21-2012, 07:10 AM
http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=4333









Super Colt PA-22-108 STC Engine Modification, STC'd
Model:
SKU: M-376-001

STC provides authorization for increase in hp of your Colt to 125, 135, 150hp. Includes necessary data, along with approved drawings, flight manual change, and copyright authorization with serial number. Code 4




http://store.wagaero.com/images/pixel_trans.gif


$159.95











http://store.wagaero.com/images/pixel_trans.gif


http://store.wagaero.com/images/pixel_trans.gif

Zac Weidner
05-21-2012, 08:52 AM
Thanks, Steve. That's exactly what was eluding me!

Kurts
06-01-2012, 11:22 AM
I'm going to piggy-back onto Zac's thread here, hope he doesn't mind. :)

I'm looking at doing this conversion as well, swapping out the Colt's O-235 for an O-290D2. Before taking the plunge I'm trying to get all the information lined up so I know what I'm getting into. So here are a few questions if anyone knows the answers!

I have both the Stewart Systems oil cooler STC and a Casper Labs spin-on oil filter adapter on the O-235 and I'd like to move them over to the new engine. Attempting to find out if that is possible. (just got an email from Casper Labs that says yes, no problem to use the same adapter) The engine is coming out of a Tri-Pacer that has an oil cooler, does a Tri-Pacer installation have cooler lines that attach directly to the accessory case, or do they use the Lycoming adapter plate that goes on between the accessory case and the oil filter screen? In order to not have to buy new oil cooler lines I'd like to use my existing accessory case, but I think I read somewhere that they are different?

I'd also need a new spinner assembly since the short one on the Colt won't fit the new prop. Anyone have one that would work?

Baffles are the same, exhaust is the same, mount is the same, new engine has Slick mags, perhaps the same ones I currently have so that shouldn't be an issue - would these engines use the same Slick mags? I have a new ring gear on my flywheel, I'm thinking that is the same part as used on a 290 so that can be swapped over. The wet vacuum pump should swap over (thinking out loud here)...

What else? I'm probably not thinking about something, what am I missing?

Kurt

Steve Pierce
06-01-2012, 11:40 AM
Spinner depends on which prop you have, good luck on finding the long spinner in good shape used, I am always looking for them too. Prop bolts if the thicker prop. Oil cooler lines do attach to the accessory case so you may have small issues there. Probably need a 45 and 90 degree elbow for the lines. New engine mount bushings. Time to fix any other little things while it is apart.

gliderman
06-01-2012, 08:56 PM
Kurt
in regards to your accessory case: My Tripacer has an accessory case with fittings for the cooler lines. Dan Frasier's Pacer has the goofy adapter. when we tried to install a spin on oil filter we found that we couldn't use a vernatherm.
both are 0-290-d2's.
I didn't like the steel oil cooler lines on my Tripacer so i made up some hoses c/w fire sleeve( the red stuff) cost me about 100 bucks.

shane

Kurts
06-02-2012, 10:05 AM
Thanks guys. The spinner thing may or may not be an issue, I don't know yet. I would rather keep the short Colt spinner to maintain the look and there is a local Pacer that has the D2 engine that has the short one on it. The prop looks just like the one on the Colt yet I'm sure it has more pitch. It has the rounded tips, skinny blades, and for a bit I thought someone had put an O-235 on it. But the owner assures me it's 135hp. I wonder what part number Sensenich it is?

Kurt

Phil0185
10-30-2012, 05:01 AM
..... New engine mount bushings......

On the subject of mount rubbers, I need to replace them on a modified Colt which is running an O-320. The mounts used on 150's and 160's should do the trick. However, the relevant illustration in the PA-22 IPC, Fig 56, doesn't list the mounts - they are shown in Fig 56A which is for the O-235 engined 108. Does anyone know if these are the same for the larger engines? If not, does anyone have the part number for the required mount rubbers? Thanks!

Steve Pierce
11-02-2012, 12:36 PM
On the subject of mount rubbers, I need to replace them on a modified Colt which is running an O-320. The mounts used on 150's and 160's should do the trick. However, the relevant illustration in the PA-22 IPC, Fig 56, doesn't list the mounts - they are shown in Fig 56A which is for the O-235 engined 108. Does anyone know if these are the same for the larger engines? If not, does anyone have the part number for the required mount rubbers? Thanks!
They are the same.

homedeziner
10-21-2016, 02:01 PM
I am looking at purchasing a colt, and I am wondering what the useful load will be affected by converting to a 150 hp engine. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Steve Pierce
10-24-2016, 08:39 PM
You are going to gain between 20-30 lbs between the additional weight of the engine, the prop and the addition of the oil cooler.

PA-16
10-24-2016, 11:15 PM
You are going to gain between 20-30 lbs between the additional weight of the engine, the prop and the addition of the oil cooler.

I'm going to be doing the O-320 upgrade on my 16, from a O-235, is the O320 case the same dimensions as the O235 and just guts and cylinders different size? What is different and what is same? Prop also, believe mine is 76 inch or 74, can't remember, why is the prop heavier on the O320, I imagine bigger length and maybe bigger hub. The oil cooler can't weigh more than a pound or two, I will go with the rear mounted oil cooler.
Thanks

homedeziner
10-25-2016, 11:05 AM
Steve, thank you for your response, how about the useful load, can you carry more weight?

gliderman
10-28-2016, 11:58 PM
the 0320 is simply bigger.the case,crank and all the "guts" are all different. the bore on a 0-235 is 4.375 and the bore on a 0-320 is 5.125 for example

think of Ford 289 and 351 Cleveland engines..... ( I know that dates me:)

Steve Pierce
10-29-2016, 07:00 AM
the 0320 is simply bigger.the case,crank and all the "guts" are all different. the bore on a 0-235 is 4.375 and the bore on a 0-320 is 5.125 for example

think of Ford 289 and 351 Cleveland engines..... ( I know that dates me:)

You forgot the Windsor, then they came out with that 302 thing.

wyandot jim
10-29-2016, 08:35 AM
Enough of the Ford talk. Think 283 and 409 Chevy. After all they never made a song about a 351 Ford :-)

PA-16
10-29-2016, 04:25 PM
Ok I was thinking dimensions of the engines were the same when I found out you could fit the O320 without modifying the cowling. So its more like going from a 289 Cobra to a 427 Cobra

David Acklam
05-15-2017, 11:47 PM
Ok I was thinking dimensions of the engines were the same when I found out you could fit the O320 without modifying the cowling. So its more like going from a 289 Cobra to a 427 Cobra

O-290 and narrow-deck O-320 are the same size case and same piston-stroke, just different cylinder bores (some experimental & airboat folks have modified 290G cases to fit 320 cyls/pistons - obviously you can't do that on a certified aircraft though)...

235 is smaller.

jay heil
05-16-2017, 12:44 AM
So its more like going from a 289 Cobra to a 427 Cobra

no that would be more like changing the o-235 to a PT6A-67F

AKJurnee
05-16-2017, 05:45 AM
So its more like going from a 289 Cobra to a 427 Cobra

no that would be more like changing the o-235 to a PT6A-67F

SEAT pilot? Anyone who talks -67F has got to be either a firebomber SEAT pilot or someone who has a Hot rod AT-802.

CTJER
07-08-2019, 09:03 AM
Where can I find the STC to upgrade my colt form the 108 to 150 hp?

Thanks,

Jerry

SMO22
07-08-2019, 09:18 AM
http://ohio.shortwingpiperclub.org/MaintenanceDataDepot/PA-22_STCs.html
Near the bottom of the list. I don't understand why it's not downloadable from the FAA site, have to go to Wag

https://www.wagaero.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/-/m-376-001.png

Gilbert Pierce
07-08-2019, 09:27 AM
All active and surrendered STC’s are available at: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

You can search them by aircraft manufacturer and type amount other criteria.

CTJER
07-08-2019, 09:51 AM
Thanks guys! Now I'll start looking for a core to major. Would appreciate any input from someone experienced with the WagAero STC package. Also, any recommendation about the 150 vs 160 hp.

Jerry

SMO22
07-08-2019, 10:01 AM
Gilbert would have more current info there, I am curious to if the performance is very noticeable between the 150 and 160?
I believe with the 150 you can use alcohol free auto gas and not with the higher compression 160. I like the 150 but haven't flown a 160hp, maybe Gilbert kept the same prop when he converted from the 150 to 160 and can let us know. You can probably cruise at a bit of a lower power setting at the same speed with the 160hp and save fuel maybe.. or go a couple knots faster if needed and burn more gas. I am interested if there was a very noticeable climb performance gain?

CTJER
07-08-2019, 10:06 AM
Anyone know offhand if the 108 prop is useable for the conversion? If not could be a big cost driver.

Jerry

SMO22
07-08-2019, 10:15 AM
Check the type cert data for the 22-150, lists what you can use and can't. The stc will list as well, but its not available to download from the faa stc page, use to be able to download a pdf of the stc. Call wag and ask them to sent you a generic copy.

dgapilot
07-08-2019, 12:13 PM
Anyone know offhand if the 108 prop is useable for the conversion? If not could be a big cost driver.

Jerry

M74DM with an O-320, M76AM with an O-235. Stock Colt prop isn't approved with either a 150 or 160 engine.

Steve Pierce
07-08-2019, 03:33 PM
Lots of info here. Google "O-320 STC site:shortwingpipers.org"

https://www.google.com/search?q=O-320+STC+site%3Ashortwingpipers.org&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS745US746&oq=O-320+STC+site%3Ashortwingpipers.org&aqs=chrome..69i57.17558j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=O-320+STC+site%3Ashortwingpipers.org&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS745US746&oq=O-320+STC+site%3Ashortwingpipers.org&aqs=chrome..69i57.17558j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

Steve Pierce
07-08-2019, 03:35 PM
Gilbert would have more current info there, I am curious to if the performance is very noticeable between the 150 and 160?
I believe with the 150 you can use alcohol free auto gas and not with the higher compression 160. I like the 150 but haven't flown a 160hp, maybe Gilbert kept the same prop when he converted from the 150 to 160 and can let us know. You can probably cruise at a bit of a lower power setting at the same speed with the 160hp and save fuel maybe.. or go a couple knots faster if needed and burn more gas. I am interested if there was a very noticeable climb performance gain?

The Peterson STC covers the 160 hp ethanol free premium auto gas.

CTJER
07-10-2019, 07:20 AM
WagAero was kind enough to provide installation instructions. Fairly generic. My research so far indicates the only the O-320-A2A or A2B varients are eligable for the upgrade. Anyone know if one is preferred over the other?

Jerry

Steve Pierce
07-10-2019, 07:27 AM
I would look at the thread linked on the O-320 upgrade and the type certificate data sheet on the O-320. Any A series will work and the B can be converted. The TCDS will tell you the differences and they are easily modified to the configuration you need.

Marley
06-12-2020, 04:27 PM
How much performance increase from the 0-235 to the 0320

at7615
06-13-2020, 06:28 AM
Anyone know offhand if the 108 prop is useable for the conversion? If not could be a big cost driver.

Jerry

Can't use 108 prop.

Gilbert Pierce
06-13-2020, 06:44 PM
The 108 prop will not work with the O-320.

dgapilot
06-13-2020, 06:52 PM
All active and surrendered STC’s are available at: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

You can search them by aircraft manufacturer and type amount other criteria.

While you can download most STC certificates from the FAA, you still need to buy them from the STC holder in order to use them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Marley
06-14-2020, 05:42 PM
New to swp my first post. I have a colt with the univair tailwheel conversion. Live in western Colorado and was curious about real world experience, before and after the O320 upgrade. Thanks Mike

weddlece
06-14-2020, 10:24 PM
Would be interested in same. Have same configuration - PA-22-108 with Univair kit, O-235 still installed. Older overhaul c. 1972, one Superior cylinder new 1997, rest are Lycoming from 1972 overhaul that have been worked with in the intervening 50 years. I think it would be a much more useful airplane with the O-320. Limitations of the conversion would seem to be the non-availability of a gross weight increase and the max structural cruising speed of 96 kt and Vne of 120 kt. Tri-Pacer has a max structural cruising speed of 117 kt and Vne of 148 kt with what I understand is the same wing. Makes more sense to me to wait on the right Pacer or tailwheel-converted Tri-Pacer, but I have not yet found the right airplane at the right price point to justify selling the Colt.

tmdavis14
08-24-2020, 02:18 PM
Looking for details from anyone who has upgraded to the 0-320 from 0-235 in a Colt. Exact engine model needed, are modifications needed to the cowl, etc? Just beginning my research so any information would be helpful.

-Taylor

Gilbert Pierce
08-24-2020, 02:51 PM
A1A, A1B, A2A, A2B, A2C, B1A, B1B, B2A, B2B, B2C, C1A, C1B, C2A, C2B, C2C

https://svennsaviation.com/product/sa04121ch-lycoming-o-320-150-160hp-engine-installation-pa-20-pa-22/ (https://svennsaviation.com/product/sa04121ch-lycoming-o-320-150-160hp-engine-installation-pa-20-pa-22/)

Here is the AML which includes the PA22-108.

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/0/fa8343c35c89b7b88625824b004d4566/$FILE/SA04121CH_AML.pdf

at7615
08-24-2020, 03:28 PM
Looking for details from anyone who has upgraded to the 0-320 from 0-235 in a Colt. Exact engine model needed, are modifications needed to the cowl, etc? Just beginning my research so any information would be helpful.

-Taylor

https://www.wagaero.com/stc-conversions/super-colt-pa-22-108-stc-engine-modification-stc-d.html

This is the one I've got, it is for the front mounted oil cooler, conical engines only. You can use a lot of the existing parts, not a hard modification, lots of fun!

Steve Pierce
08-25-2020, 06:00 AM
Taylor, I merged your thread with some others on the Colt engine upgrade. You might also Google search "O-320 150 hp Conversion site:shortwingpipers.org" for even moe information.

Marley
10-21-2020, 12:49 PM
hey how come no help here did I post incorrectly

ysifly2
10-21-2020, 01:42 PM
You might start with this thread:

O320 upgrade conversion on COLT
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=15446&share_tid=4532&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eshortwingpipers%2Eorg%2Ffo rum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D4532&share_type=t&link_source=app


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Marc Davis
10-21-2020, 02:15 PM
Cruse speed would be a little higher.
Fuel burn will be about 8.5 gph. How much fuel does the stock 108 have?
Climb will be much better.
Stall speed will be higher without flaps.

Another thing to consider, the CG envelope is smaller for the 108. To be legal you will have to add lead to the tail.

Of course, the relevant structure of the colt is as strong and arguably stronger than the 150. The wing structure is the same minus the flaps. The aerodynamics are the same draw your own conclusions about the practical CG and Vne.

Marley
10-21-2020, 04:32 PM
Cruse speed would be a little higher.
Fuel burn will be about 8.5 gph. How much fuel does the stock 108 have?
Climb will be much better.
Stall speed will be higher without flaps.

Another thing to consider, the CG envelope is smaller for the 108. To be legal you will have to add lead to the tail.

Of course, the relevant structure of the colt is as strong and arguably stronger than the 150. The wing structure is the same minus the flaps. The aerodynamics are the same draw your own conclusions about the practical CG and Vne.
Thank you so much I have 36 gal of fuel