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Bayport Piper
05-14-2008, 12:57 PM
Hey everyone, I'm a newbie here and enjoy the forum. Had a question about hub caps, and whether its better with or without them on. I'm located on Long Island NY and heard both opinions at my airport. I personally think that hub caps tend to get dirt and grime lodged behind them, and not having them on makes it a bit easier to clean. I'd appreciate any input. Thanks John

Stephen
05-14-2008, 02:14 PM
No caps on my Pacer's wheels or wheel pants.

Glen Geller
05-14-2008, 04:01 PM
I prefer the look of the little hubcaps, and I think they tend to keep the wheel bearings cleaner.
It is not hard to remove them once a month and check behind them to see how dirty the wheels and hubs get.
A gasket could be made pretty easily and glued to the back of the hubcap to seal 'em up good. Just include a little gap-slot to allow them to breath.
On my plane I pull them off 2-3 times a year to check tire pressure and at annual, I have not seen any build up of crud behind them (tho' I am 90% on pavement.)
But I'm sure they add valuable streamlining to the plane, what maybe 15-20 knots? ;)

Steve Pierce
05-14-2008, 04:55 PM
I like them. My Clipper wheel bearings stayed a lot cleaner with hub caps. Granted I had Cleveland wheels and tight fitting hub caps. I even sprung for a new set when I bought the Pacer and took the wheel pants off. I think some of the old single screw Tri-Pacer hub caps that I have seen were used too much when they were new and don't fit so good anymore. :lol:

Bayport Piper
05-14-2008, 06:03 PM
I personally like the naked hub look but being that I'm on a grass field in Long Island I might as well spring for some caps. I figure some with gold plated Mercedes symbols on them. :D

Bultaco Jim
05-14-2008, 08:19 PM
More important than any hubcaps, my curb-feelers are mis-matched on the Pacer. Does anyone know where to find the originals?

Glen Geller
05-20-2008, 12:11 AM
You'll find the original curb feelers are attached to the roof of the airplane and have a wire running to the radio.
If you hit the curb with these, the radio will no longer work, signifying a need to be careful when unbuckling your seatbelt.

Bultaco Jim
05-20-2008, 01:11 PM
Thanks Glen, I really learned a lot from two sentences......But should I leave the tassles on, or off?

DroopTip
05-21-2008, 12:50 PM
I have a little bit of a different view on useing the hub caps. When i started running the 26'' Goodyears on my 22/20 i had a couple of instances with flat tires due to the wheel and tube slippling in hard braking situations. I would cause the valve stem to be cut on the rim. After talking to a few people we decided to cut out some hub caps, give them a cool piper paint job, and then run extra long screws that penerate all the way into the tire itself. Seems to keep the tire from slipping pretty well.

Glen Geller
05-21-2008, 01:19 PM
Bultaco Jim,
Regarding your tassles, I see no problems but do they get tangled in the yoke during the flare for landing?
Not that there's anything wrong with that, who am I to judge....

Your screen name brings back memories, my brother used to race motocross and had a Pursang, great bike in it's day, went though a few crankshafts as I recall http://www.bultacopursang.com/

Hillbilly
05-21-2008, 03:38 PM
I have a little bit of a different view on useing the hub caps. When i started running the 26'' Goodyears on my 22/20 i had a couple of instances with flat tires due to the wheel and tube slippling in hard braking situations. I would cause the valve stem to be cut on the rim. After talking to a few people we decided to cut out some hub caps, give them a cool piper paint job, and then run extra long screws that penerate all the way into the tire itself. Seems to keep the tire from slipping pretty well.

Drag racers been doing that for 20-30 years. They run 5 or 10 psi in those huge wrinkle wall slicks, not even remotely enough pressure to get a good hold on the rim, especially with 2500 horses twisting the axles.

Bultaco Jim
05-21-2008, 08:14 PM
Our speedway bikes were so powerful, we gave up on the whole thing and had the valve stem stick out the side of the tire.

Mark Rasmussen
05-22-2008, 12:05 AM
I have hub caps on my Colt. The wheels stay clean, and I'm based on a grass strip, and only make about one landing in 10 on pavement.

Mark

BrettL
11-12-2010, 10:16 PM
I have the Univair 4" steel wheel covers on my Vagabond. I find them very difficult to remove. The rim of the cover seals to the wheel quite effectively. It often takes me 5 to 10 minutes of carefully trying to wedge a putty knive between the cover and the wheel to pry the covers loose, and I almost always damage the paint in the process. I like to check the tire pressures monthly, and after any significant temperature changes. I have them installed both for looks, and for the fact that drawing 11550 shows them as a standard installed part on the PA-17.

Although the Univair covers are a part number U31702-002, they are rather different than what is depicted in Piper drawing 31702. I'd really like to find some of the original wheel covers, or some new ones built to the original design (and out of aluminum).

tnowak
11-15-2010, 03:19 AM
I have the Univair hub caps on my Vag. On one wheel it came off very easily; on the other I was experiencing the same problem you have- difficult to remove. I found the fix was to slightly open up the flange on the circumference with small "duck-billed" pliers and the problem went away.
Tony

Ed Brown
11-15-2010, 09:35 AM
I like the hubcaps on my Vagabond. Here's a photo of how they look.

Steve Pierce
11-17-2010, 07:36 AM
Looks like your Vag is in nice company Ed.

Is the problem with a Univair hub cap and it is to large a diameter to fit the stock 4" wheel? If so a call to Univair might be in order.I come across problems with new parts from time to time and call them and let them know.

BrettL
11-17-2010, 09:29 AM
Steve, if you were asking me... Yes, the problem is with a Univair hub cap. It fits the stock 4" wheel perfectly. The problem is that it fits too perfectly. If it were a bit looser and sloppier it would probably fall right off when you take the screws out. The Univair hub caps have an edge around them, kind of like a resealable plastic lid on a coffee can, while the original Piper hub caps did not. I often find that FAA/PMA parts from Univair are "beefed-up", a different design to serve the same purpose (with the intention of being an improvement over the original part), or simply have no attention to secondary dimensions and details. The hub caps suffer from the first two. I'd rather have the original Piper design, unless it actually had a problem or a high failure rate.

Steve Pierce
11-17-2010, 10:16 PM
Brett, Do you have any photos? I will talk to one of their engineers.

pa20
11-18-2010, 04:55 PM
I like the hubcaps on my Vagabond. Here's a photo of how they look.
Note: Advance apologies for a short program interruption!
Ed, the D-17 is unmistakeable, but what is the plane on the lift in the background?

Ed Brown
11-18-2010, 08:56 PM
The blue airplane is a Ryan SCW (sport coupe, with Warner engine) Here are a couple more shots of it. I like the dive brakes. He just had the AeroMatic prop rebuilt and will be flying soon. That's my friend's hangar in Las Vegas. Just spent a week visiting him, and am the way home to KGRE now. I'll post more photos of the trip once I get home, but in the meantime here is a teaser of Meteor Crater. Luckily it just missed hitting those buildings.

BrettL
11-21-2010, 02:11 AM
Steve,

The original Piper hub caps are shown in drawing 31702, titled "Landing Gear Hubcap" on the Vagabond drawing CD. I dont have a photo showing the lip on the Univair caps.

Brett

Steve Pierce
11-21-2010, 10:05 AM
I have an original steel Piper hub cap. I will talk to my contact at Univair.

BrettL
11-21-2010, 10:50 AM
Steve,

According to drawing 31702, the originals were made of .032" thick 3S-1/2H aluminum (3003-H14). I'm assuming the change to steel was something Univair did rather than Piper.

Steve Pierce
11-21-2010, 11:46 AM
No, this must be a Cub hub cap.It is original Piper. I guess Piper made different hub caps for the 4" wheels.

BrettL
11-21-2010, 02:14 PM
Interesting. The steel ones Univair sells are part numbers "U31702-000" (with the "Cub" imprint) and "U31702-002" (without the "Cub" imprint). The Vagabond, in both the parts catalog and drawings, calls for a 31702-2. The Piper drawing 31702 shows aluminum hub caps for both 31702 and 31702-2 (neither of which have the "Cub" imprint). The drawing was "redrawn and revised" on April 23, 1946, so perhaps these were a steel part on an earlier revision. This drawing does reference models "J3" and "J5C". Revision D indicates the addition of the "-2" version, presumably for the Vagabond.

The Vagabond that won grand champion classic at Oshkosh this year appeared to have the original aluminum wheel covers shown in drawing 31702, Rev D.

Steve Pierce
11-21-2010, 07:10 PM
That is one problem with the drawings, no idea if it is the latest revision or not. Probably started out with steel and then changed to aluminum would be my guess.