Sliding window Channel

[d.grimm]

Putting a right side sliding window in the Vagabond. Got the CubCrafters kit for the windows, where do I find the U-channel with the weatherstrip in it? Searched this on SWPC and SuperCub.org and couldn't dig out a name or contact info.
Dave

[smcnutt]

I've not bought any but I remember others saying Cub Crafters and/or JC Whitney.

[d.grimm]

Couldn't come up with it at JC Whitney, I guess Vera gets the call Monday.
Dave

[Gilbert Pierce]

I got the U channel from Cub Crafters.

[JohnW]

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Prod ... g=1#review (http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2008545/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2008545/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=window+channel&reviewflag=1#review)

[d.grimm]

John,
You're the man. Now which one do you use? Style no. 11?
Dave

[JohnW]

Dave; I'm gonna fudge out on a direct answer. There are about 62 variables. There is a Q/A section (if you go one layer deeper and click on the p/n for one of the channels listed) that is otherwise about useless, and it says to "contact 'them' at 1-800-603-4383 to order samples". I HIGHLY recommend you go this route.

A couple "considerations". Your channels are "rigid" and "straight", so you DON'T need "flexible". Flexible works okay, but is exactly that (and requires too many screws to hold it flat). The Vagabonds (and Pacers, Clippers and early Tripes) had a 3-sided steel channel that the fuzzy strip sits down INTO (the converted PA-22s had an L-shaped "shelf" and you can use the wider channel). The "channel" measures 9/16" wide. This can be an issue with "seating" a 9/16" strip into the "groove", and the 9/16" also have a tad loose a grip on the sliders. Too, you get the choice of "beaded" or "unbeaded". Piper used the "unbeaded" and it simply sat flush with the "top" edges of the steel channel. Putting "beaded" in gives you a nifty stainless steel "molding" along the inside and outside edges (I like it, and I use .025 stainless for the window edging. A little Jeweler's Rouge and it will last forever and NOT rust) and twenty years later it still looks new. So, you would want to "specify" the height according to whether you want the bead, or not because you want to have the beading JUST ABOVE the edge of the airframe channel. The 1/2" wide also lends itself better to basically "square-cutting" the ends of the strips and simply laying them in the top and bottom channels "off-center", and as long as they can be. Trying to keep "diagonal cuts" neat is pretty much not a possibility with this stuff. This "offset" works to your advantage since the forward window will be on the OUTSIDE of the inner one (and v-v), So you can work out which way you want to offset the vertical channels to work to your advantage. The vertical strips being offset holds the window edging a little better when fully closed and kills any tendency to rattle. Piper "butt-fitted" theirs, and needed a thumb screw at the top of the channel (for the Pacers, anyway...I don't recall that there was one on the Vagabonds or Clippers; I think you just "lived with the inconvenience"... but hey! the -15 got Piper out of receivership; it wasn't overly "Deluxe", yaknowhatImsayin?) to make them "stay where you put them". Oh, and use #4 machine SCREWS and teeny little ESNA nuts, rather than soft rivets, to attach the edging to the 'glas. MUCH easier if you ever want to replace them. Just put the heads of the screws "facing the other pane" where they overlap (you DO know that there was a piece of FELT cemented to both window panes -right on the contact edge where they slide by each other, right? Like a "wiper". These are ABSOLUTELY necessary or the windows will be "roo-ent" even before you get all the edging mounted! I'm getting more and more sidetracked, but Piper cemented a 3/8 by 3/8 by 2" plexiglas BLOCK onto the inside of the windows to open and close them with. Don't do that. Why Piper never thought of it is beyond me, but one of their nifty "control cable knobs" is IDEAL for a "knob" (I actually prefer an "ivory" one, but black is fine, too. Red can be cool...), and all you need is 2 SS wood washers and a 10-32 machine screw with a plain nut for a jamnut, and a 7/32 hole. Put it about a third of the way UP FROM THE BOTTOM of the pane, and about one inch away from the [closed] edge, and you'll be smiling every time you move a window. Beats the daylights out of that dumb block with the smooched up cement around it!

So, if your head hurts. just pick out a [approximately] 1/2" wide, 1/2" tall, unbeaded, fuzzy on the bottom as well as the side (rather than teflon/nylon), rigid section (2 each, 6' long) and go for it.

[Steve Pierce]

They will let you order 3 samples at a time. I have two sets of the channels that cub Crafters sold and they measure almost 5/8" and fit tightly in the window channels. I have some 1/2" material I bought from Univair a long time ago and it is a bit loose. I will see how these samples from J.C. Whitney fit and post.

[Steve Pierce]

I got my 3 samples of window channel from JC Whitney. The sliding channels for the Clipper and Super Cub appear to be Style 8, 6ft. A=5/8" B=1/2" C=3/16" to 1/4" Steel Core Window Channel ZX819740U Each $41.99. It is almost identical to the stuff I got from Cub Crafters for $100. I also ordered Style 10, 6ft. A=5/8" B=9/16" C=3/16" to 1/4" Steel Core Window Channel ZX184852P Each $28.99 and Style 11, 6ft. A=5/8" B=9/16" C=3/16" to 1/4" Steel Core Window Channel ZX193469T Each $25.99. Style 10 and 11 have a chrome strip at the edges that I don't care for. Style 8 and 11 has fuzzy stuff on the bottom like the two sides and style 10 just has it on the two sides. I have ordered samples of Style 6, 6ft. A=5/8" B=1/2" C= 3/16" to 1/4" Steel Core Window Channel ZX193464U Each $24.99, Style 4, 6ft. A=5/8" B=17/32" C=3/16" to 1/4" Steel Core Window Channel ZX193466R Each $24.99 and Style 14, 6ft. A=5/8" B=9/16" C=7/32" to 1/4" Steel Core Window Channel ZX819741B Each $60.99. I am curious about the differences in style, quality and price. I will post my results and some pictures.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/wcsstore/jcwhitney/images/imagecache/G_18545G_SW_1.jpg;pvc2747d4ca896bca4

Thanks John for the link. I went through this several years ago and they didn't have as much information on their site.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Prod ... g=1#review (http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2008545/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2008545/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=window+channel&reviewflag=1#review)

[JohnW]

Steve; I'm not sure whether their "samples" include the white strip that replaces the "fuzzy" along the bottom of those channels that don't have it (the fuzzy), but if NOT, what they supply is a thin white "plastic" (I believe it is nylon, teflon, or some other "space-age xxxLON") material that I don't care for, much. When you cut the channel to the length you want, the white strip "falls out" and there is no sign it was ever glued. It gives you "Adgeda", and if you use headliner cement it doesn't stay stuck for long, and tries to escape after the windows are moved a few times. Very Fugly (and exasperating) to deal with. Stick with the "fuzzy bottom" styles, if you can.

I would have supplied more details when the subject came up originally, but a local "convertible top place" (also purveyors of auto window glass, and windshields) just recently stopped carrying these pieces as a stock part and I have only just recently "depleted my personal stock". I had gotten spoiled by being able to "walk in and lay my hands on it", but those days are gone. Since I haven't had to buy it from JCW for 20 or 30 years now, I couldn't find my notes for which exact p/n was the two types I prefer (from them). Thanks for doing all the legwork!!! I think I might have spent a few hundred dollars on this stuff (even from JCW!) back in the early Seventies, because of the lack of info available on it. Hats off to the Internet, eh???

[Steve Pierce]

Thanks John, that makes sense looking at their cutaway.

[d.grimm]

Went with the whole CubCrafters Super Cub sliding window kit and it came out real nice.
Ddave

[Tadpole]

Looks nice Dave, did you have to do lots of trimming?

[Tyler H.]

Make sure that strip is secured well. The PA-12 that Cub Crafters rebuilt out here lost part of the striping in flight and it went through the bottom of the wing. They now use some little screws or bolts (didn't get a good look) to hold it on.

[d.grimm]

I used small counter-sunk head sheet metal screws. Wasn't real happy with just silicone.
Dave

[51-pa22]

Thanks to d.grimm for popping this back to the top and refreshing my "to-do" list Many thanks to JohnW and again to Steve for the details. Took a while for me to pop the correct area on the updated JC Whitney web site. after re-learning JC's site the current search using STEEL CORE WINDOW CHANNELS placed me in the correct location for choosing the correct channels for 51-PA22 now I need to go over John's and Steve's channel observations to choose the correct channels and recut the D windows and both front window sets

http://165thbdhr.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/smokin.gif

[JohnW]

I used small counter-sunk head sheet metal screws. Wasn't real happy with just silicone.
Dave

Yeah, What Dave said. Actually, you can even use #4(x6) PeeKay Type A (or B) pan head screws (aircraft "low profile dished pan head"; hardware store pan heads are "round") screws sunk into the "fuzzy" on the bottom of the channel, and the 'glas doesn't even know they are there. However, #6 (x6) PeeKays will give you a "bump" when you slide the windows across them. I normally, on the top and bottom channels, screw one in @ 3-4 inches in from each end, and then "equal space" two more in between (three total on the vertical channels) and I ain't lost (or "loosed") one in 35 years. You sometimes have a small "issue" with FINDING THEM AGAIN if you are wanting to ever take them out. They hide GOOD, but they're there. Clearly as Dave says, "cementing them don't git it".

Thanks for the thanks...but, "De nada". That's what "community", "camaraderie" and the spirit of helping and all that is all about! I used to be a Member at a place that USED TO act like that, but it's gone, now! (still appreciate hearing that, tho') JW

[Throttle Pusher]

I wonder why Piper didnt continue useing the split windows, thear so much nicer than the big one peice with aliitle movable window at the front.

[smcnutt]

Was looking into this and Vera at Cub Crafter's didn't know of anything for a PA-22 but did have something for the PA-18. Is this the same thing I need for my plane?

Also, JC Whitney didn't know any of those P/N's mentioned above. However, they did have STANPRO STEEL CORE WINDOW CHANNELS under a different P/N 18545G in the clearance section that sounded like the same thing. I only found that online after talking to them and they couldn't find anything over the phone.

Can anyone provide specifics of what went into putting this slider into the right side door. Do you use 2 single channels or a double channel? Are there tracks just top & bottom or all 4 sides?

[Tadpole]

Was looking into this and Vera at Cub Crafter's didn't know of anything for a PA-22 but did have something for the PA-18. Is this the same thing I need for my plane?

That's because nothing in the CC system says PA-22 for this...it's the sliding window kit for the PA-18 that Dave used above to do this.

[smcnutt]

Thanks Tadpole.

That's why I asked "Is this the same thing I need for my plane?" because I knew somebody would know that right off the bat. I also completely forgot to make the connection between CC and you....brain wasn't on full power.

[49clipper]

Interesting conversation on the right side window. I am building my door and was going to leave out the slider and install a fixed glass with a vent. Why shouldn't I do that, other than the fact that the sliders leak so much air? I got rid of my slider in my Clipper for just that reason.
js

[smcnutt]

We were looking at it for the airflow you could get in the summer but also for being able to take pictures without looking thru Plexiglas. Still planning on adding some vents in the back at least.

[Tadpole]

I personally like the slider versus the little pop out vents. Both leak, but I seem to have better luck preventing / fixing leaks on a slider. Plus it allows to open more for various reasons.

[Bob Mac]

We made them for my neighbors Pacer and I intend to do the same for mine. We put handles for opening and closing and insulation in the groves. A piece of cake (but only because my neighbor and the airplane owner is retired from his upholstery business that included aircraft interiors.) I posted photo's of the installation some time ago but I don't remember the subject of the thread.

[d.grimm]

I bought the JC Whitney channels in the beginning, I didn't
Like how flexible they were. The Cub Crafters PA18 window
took very little trimming and sealed nicely.
Dave

[Steve Pierce]

Here is what I order from JC Whitney 6 feet for $42.99 plus $8.99 shipping.. Good stuff.



Part #:STN00786

STEEL-CORE WINDOW CHANNEL Seals out weather, eliminates window rattles and enables window/window regulators to function properly Choice of rigid beaded/unbeaded and flexible beaded/unbeaded Stops leaks and duplicates original sizes, shapes and constructio Style 8, 6ft. A=5/8" B=1/2" C=3/16" to 1/4" Steel Core Window Channel
StanPro

Cub Crafters stuff is for the PA18 and you have to trim a couple of the pieces.

[Steve Pierce]

The part numbers show different from my invoice to JC Whitney's website. I Chatted with them this morning and found the correct number to order. Style 8, 6ft. A=5/8" B=1/2" C=3/16" to 1/4" Steel Core Window Channel (http://www.jcwhitney.com/style-8-6ft-a%3D5/8-b%3D1/2-c%3D3/16-to-1/4-steel-core-window-channel/p2008545.jcwx?skuId=225807&filterid=j1)

SKU #: 1JA 819740 (http://www.jcwhitney.com/style-8-6ft-a%3D5/8-b%3D1/2-c%3D3/16-to-1/4-steel-core-window-channel/p2008545.jcwx?skuId=225807&filterid=j1) Mfr #: 0078-6

Use the SKU#


http://www.jcwhitney.com/style-8-6ft-a%3D5/8-b%3D1/2-c%3D3/16-to-1/4-steel-core-window-channel/p2008545.jcwx?skuId=225807&#prodDetailTabPanel

[danP]

I think troy Hammond has a sliding window on the pilot's side. Is the pilot's side slider part of the type or is a STC or 337 required?

[Troy Hamon]

My plane has sliding windows both sides for the front seats. My understanding is that it is the way the early PA-22 models were made, I have serial number 27.

[danP]

Thanks Troy, sorry about the spelling of your name there.

[Troy Hamon]

Happens all the time. My ancestors got into this habit of spelling the name different from everyone else somewhere along the line.

[Bob Ohio]

Getting ready to redo the 52 TriPacer sliding windows and have all the J C Whitney information. Are you using the double track channel strip, or the single track channel strip in the rebuilds?

J C Whitney style 8 as Steve recommended in 2/2012 is no longer shown in their listings. Wondering if the style 8 was a double track which is now listed as a style 3.

Bob

[cammons3]

Wondering if the style 8 was a double track which is now listed as a style 3.
Be careful what you buy from JCW. I purchased window channel based on pictures and descriptions from them, even after calling their customer support and requesting the actual dimensions, I received something that didn't come near the item description. Before you order, research the Stanpro site (http://stanpro.com/SearchResults.aspx?listType=DisplayCategory&DisplayCategoryId=36) to determine if their dimensions/style/description/etc is what you seek. I have about $100 in useless channel to show for it from JCW.
Also, after talking with a local friend, who also owns a bright red Clipper and frequents this forum regularly, I was pointed to Cubcrafters as another source. Check out part #:70009-00-K on page 3 of their catalog (http://www.cubcrafters.com/pdfs/partscatalog.pdf).

[Steve Pierce]

I got burned as well and just spend the $100 at Cub Crafters. I had that much per installation with JC Whitney anyway. Shipping is cheaper because they come in 4 pieces from CC.

[Bob Ohio]

Will do, have already checked C C parts. Thanks Bob

[tnowak]

To save me lots of time looking, and then getting the wrong stuff, does anyone know what works the best for replacement "U" channel that is used in the PA17 window frame on the left hand side?
That is, the channel that the split Perspex windows slides in.
Mine is getting quite old (probably original) and could do with being replaced at fuselage recover time.
Thanks
TonyN

[tnowak]

Thanks Steve. Will research further based on the thread.
TonyN

[tnowak]

I contacted Cub Crafters re: window channel and they suggested I take a look at the Univair website.
For some reason I didn't even consider looking there (based on comments in these posts regarding other sources) but Univair have the correct channeling for Vagabond and Clipper (and other models).
Even the part numbers (and channeling dimensions) are the same (but prefixed with a "U").

TonyN

[Steve Pierce]

Tell Vera you want the felt window channels for the Super Cub. They were $100.

[Vagabondblues]

I found the U channel at Restoration Specialties. The channel is very high quality stainless steel so corrosion should never be a problem. It also has a nice rounded stainless edging that provides extra coverage over the fabric. The channel was made for 1950 Fords so you may be able to find a source in the UK for something like the Ford Popular? http://stores.restorationspecialties.com/y658x-72/

[tnowak]

Steve,

I am confused! Are you suggesting that what Cub Crafters has is better or cheaper or both?
Vagabondblues - thanks for the tip - I will see what may be available here. Restoration specialities looks a good website.
TonyN

[Steve Pierce]

Cub Crafters is good quality and when you add shipping can be less expensive than other vendors if you need enough for one airplane.

[tnowak]

Steve,

The Cub Crafters channel looks very good and the precut lengths are okay for a Vagabond window.
I have asked them to double-check the channel outside width and depth but they must be a bit busy at the moment.
Don't want to end up with more stuff for my "never to be used" stock!
I assume they will fit okay? My existing channel is approx. 0.5" wide and 0.5" high? Would you know?
TonyN

[Steve Pierce]

It fits the Clipper perfectly. I am in Anchorage right now so unable to measure any. Can do next week.

[AKJurnee]

Anyone have photos of the Window channel installation or areas? Someone put a one piece window on the pilot side and id like to put it back to the slider due to summer Heat.

[PA-16]

Make sure you get a good seal on the vertical area at the back of the window where the fabric meets the window or tar strip I think is what I have there. When Im flying the seal there didnt hold up and looks like someone tried later or maybe when the window was initially installed the put silicone between the fabric and tar strip and now I think its allowing coooooooold air to get in and it circles behind the window channel doing a 180 change in direction and comes out forward at the pilot as he is trying to stay warm.

Trying to figure out how to re seal that now...

[Steve Pierce]

Anyone have photos of the Window channel installation or areas? Someone put a one piece window on the pilot side and id like to put it back to the slider due to summer Heat.


Did they leave the steel U-channel frame welded to the fuselage frame?

[AKJurnee]

Did they leave the steel U-channel frame welded to the fuselage frame?

Yes, there's a 9/16 Steel U Chanel bottom and front with a lip on the rear and top.

[Steve Pierce]

Should be U-channel on all four sides.

[AKJurnee]

Looks like mine its correct per the Drawings. Pictures would help immensely as the drawings are crude.

[PA-16]

I am going to make new lexan windows for mine I think, mine look 50 years old, wonder if I can get them out without breaking them? I can take pics of mine but its alltogether, and it does have u channels on all four sides

[Gilbert Pierce]

Take the screw out of the top channel and pull it out with windows. After you get the screws out tilt the channel and the windows out from the top and lift both windows out.
The screws are #4 pk and they are up in the furry part of the channel. You will have to look and feel for them.

[Marty57]

I'm about ready to order the channel for the windows in my 2+2 project and found this source. I will be ordering soon. Looks to be a good price and the size looks to be about right. Here's the link: http://stores.restorationspecialties.com/y658x-72/

Marty

[tnowak]

If it will help I can take pictures of my Vagabond's window channels (fuselage being prepared for a recover).
It is probably a very similar setup to yours.

Steve P recommended the Cub Crafters window channel and that is what I have purchased for my Vag.
TonyN

[Steve Pierce]

I'm about ready to order the channel for the windows in my 2+2 project and found this source. I will be ordering soon. Looks to be a good price and the size looks to be about right. Here's the link: http://stores.restorationspecialties.com/y658x-72/

Marty

This is the one I have been using as of late. Is flexible enough to be rolled up for shipping.
http://stores.restorationspecialties.com/8-a-2-96/

[AKJurnee]

Awesome guys, Thanks!