PA 22 disc brakes

[RobertC]

I want to change to disc brakes on my PA 22. I haven't been able to find the appropriate STC or company that sells a kit. My IA would even work with a field approval. I know, I may have overlooked information that is readily available but that is the way I am.
Robert C

[Stephen]

Call Univair or Alaska Bushwheel

[deandayton]

My IA is working with another local shortwinger to put Cleveland wheels on a PA22. He said that you can call Parker-Hannifin and they will send you the paperwork (STC?) to do this.

I don't know this to be a fact, but it might be worth a try.

[tyndall]

Is a STC necessary for discs on a Tri if keeping the johnson bar? Couldn't it be covered by the Colt part of the TC and done with a field approval?

[Stephen]

Is a STC necessary for discs on a Tri if keeping the johnson bar? Couldn't it be covered by the Colt part of the TC and done with a field approval?

If an STC exists for the Trike, and I think it does, that is the way you are generally required to go.

[JohnW]

Well, yeah...but then the keywords are "generally required". Ultimately that is up to the guy at your FSDO that needs to sign off Block 3 on the 337, and they are pretty lenient when things "similar" are on the same Type Certificate. What only sorta, kinda, slightly, "goes against" is the parenthesis "(PA-22-108 Only)". There IS a slight gross weight difference...again (but I think arguing that the PA-28 Series discs, and the similarity THERE, would be a good "basis for obtaining a Field Approval", too! Fact is, I believe that there are a COUPLE of STCs for this using Cherokee binders), it depends on the Inspector whether he wants to split that hair. A lot don't.

Hey, it pays to have your IA call them up for "a little guidance on this matter, S.V.P.", ya hearin' me? A little kowtow here, maybe a touch of begging (or wimpering) there... They LIKE that. For sure, if you don't ASK the Feds, you will never know (and that can STILL vary from Office to Office).

Another thing might be to get the new Advisory Circular (Steve posted it here about a week or so ago) concerning "Aging Aircraft" (I tried to Search for AC 23-27) but all I get as a lame response is "No posts were found because the word 23-27 is not contained in any post."! What is WITH THAT, Steve?) , print it all out, put an Office Max (Staples?) binder on it and use it as a "liner" to carry a dozen Fat Pills over to your Friendly Neighborhood IA's Dungeon. Nobody is making some of the drum parts anymore, and I'll bet the Feds would like to go on record as "living by the AC"). If the IA is versed in THAT, I would think he would have some "reasonable ideas" about how to approach an issue JUST LIKE THIS. All you really HAVE TO DO is follow the guidelines set forth by the Administrator in the FAA's guidelines about how their FSDOs "deal with" applications for Field approval. I don't recall it EVER being said in so many words that you that you CAN'T get a Field Approval for something that has an STC (I hear this distant "tinkling" like little bells, a few yards behind me, that are saying something like "...should encourage use of an existing STC...", but I don't think that was in an Advisory Circular or an FAA Order. Maybe it was "SHOULD", and not "SHALL" use...?).

As far as "a simple logbook entry rather than a Field Approval"...well, the licensed mechanic that did that MIGHT have to answer the question -some day- that goes something like this: "In view of the qualification that such and such (disc) brakes are specifically limited to the PA-22-108 Model found herein in Type Certificate 1A6...how can you defend installing them on any other Model contained in that Type Certificate without other, more specific authorization?". That could be a "problem". Developing a Field Approval based on that info found in the applicable TC, on the other hand, takes the load off the Mechanic that signed such a logbook entry and plunks it down right in the middle of the Federal Equivalent of City Hall. "You can't sue City Hall".

[pmanton]

I put the "Stinson" Cleveland brake kit on my PA-22 via a field approval. I told my PMI that I didn't want to use the Univair STC which uses Colt parts but wanted more modern parts hence the newer Cleveland kit.

I can provide copies of my approved 337 if wanted.

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1

[RobertC]

Thanks for the help. This is an upgrade I thought would be "simple". Time will tell if my thinking is correct, of course dealing with bureaucracy is probably never simple. John, it looks like this time if I take a copy of your letter to my IA, I won't have to redact it. Your help on my engine upgrade and change made it a non event. I will have to post, one of these days, the major improvement the engine change made. I just need to stop grinning because of the performance upgrade, and crying because of the bank account drain. I had some under the mattress money I thought I would put toward a brake upgrade.
robertc

[pmanton]

Robert:

I tried to send the 337 as an attachment to the reply to your PM.

I can't figure out if it went or not. If you didn't get it email me at paul-anton@cox.net and I'll re-send it

Paul

[Stephen]

John, I appreciate your post and like the approach towards field approvals. I'm trying to remember (which may be impossible), if it was my PMI other STC holders who have told me in the past about using STC's instead of field approvals when available. Obviouly, STC holders have a stake in the answer, I'll ask my PMI. Brake upgrades like installing shoulder harnesses should be easy to get approval. With out reviewing the major alteration defination, I'm thinking that a simple log book entry would be inadaquate and at least require a 337 filed.

[Steve Pierce]

If there is an STC for a modification the FAA doesn't like doing a field approval for it, however they don't know a lot about what STC's are out there either. Williams has an STC for the disc brakes on a Tri-Pacer but it is limited to some old Cleveland brakes that are hard to find worth the money. Rex had a thread about this recently. He has the STC paperwork but is getting a field approval because people wanted as much for the old wheels and brakes as a new set of the more modern version and when it comes to aluminum and magnesium wheels and brake calipers, new is always better.

[Steve Pierce]

Here is the thread:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=523&p=5601#p5601 (http://www.shortwingpipers.org/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=523&p=5601#p5601)

[markpalajac]

Robert,
Were you successful with the replacement of drum with disc brakes? I want to do the same thing with my tri-pacer. If so can you tell me what brake kit you used?
Thanks,
Mark in Fremont CA

[Lownslow]

Hey guys, I'd like a set of the old drums for one wheel if anyone has any, and as long as we can be reasonable. Cleveland makes a conversion kit to disc brakes I saw in AC Spruce for the 1-1/4" axles. You might see if that works for you.

Thanks, Lou S.