Tripe/Pacer conversion cost

[Rudder Bug]

Good morning to all,

I am considering converting my Tripe into a tail dragger, add wing extensions, a landing light and ideally, a left front door. I can access an AME for a reasonable rate, who allows me to work under his supervision.

Material wise, does someone has an idea of what to expect for cost?

Giles

[redbarron55]

Slightly more than the cost of buying a plane like you want woud be the most likley answer, Perhaps not particularly PC, however.

[Rudder Bug]

Thanks for your input sir!

Actually, I've searched a little further today and also found out it'd be best to buy one already converted, as you mention above. My best bet could probably be a wing extension kit and live with my Tripe.

Even though I'm an off-strip and bush man for work and play, I love that little bugger so much that I manage to forgive it being a trike. After all, nobody's perfect!

Giles

[Steve Pierce]

I would get the parts cost from Univair. Labor is 50-70 hours for the tailwheel conversion and 40-50 for the left hand door. Stphen could tell more about the wing extensions. The advantage to converting your airplane is you will know what you have unlike buying another and then finding tons of things that need fixing.

[Rudder Bug]

Right on Steve;

She's already a fine girl as is but I am contemplating the wing extension mod seriously, at least. That would be a good start for now. A quicker takeoff could not hurt at our fishing spot.

Giles

[Stephen]

The Sullivan wing tip extension takes 30 to 40 hours. I made the tips removable...but that takes longer and is not necessary. Total parts and materials are about $1500. There is nothing difficult, if you know how to do fabric work and some metal work. No special tools are needed.

[Kurts]

I dream of this conversion as well, or at least the tail wheel part of it. I've found this picture online and it is what mine would look like if it were converted, same paint scheme, same wheel pants, and it looks nice. So 50 to 70 hours of labor, but what is the cost of necessary parts?

Kurt

[Steve Pierce]

I like that paint scheme. Not sure of the parts cost but Univair has it in several kits depending on if you need brakes etc.

[redbarron55]

It all depends on what you are looking for. Years ago I had a choice. I could buy a basket case and inject money as I had it and the aircraft could wait if necessary. I ended up with the aircraft I wanted at the cost RATE I could afford.
I could have bought an airplane for less, but as has been noted I wouldn't be sure what was under the fabric and the possible cost of repairing what would come to light later.
A side effect of rebuilding my own airplane was the experience that led to the A&P ticket (folloewd by the IA).
I ended up with around $15k in the airplane back in 1975 when that was more money.
One experience before I bought my plane was the prettiest tripacer you ever saw in for inspection where I was working at the time (trading labor for flying lessons). It had just been bought by a proud new pilot and WOW was it nice looking!
Unfortunately when we put the fabric tester on top of the fuselage for a punch test, when we pushed on it the whole thing fell through the fabric!
The pretty pain was the only thing holding the fabric together.
This was the first plane I was involved in recovering and it taught me more than one lesson!
The other lesson was that you can figure on doubling what you think t will cost to redo an airplane.
It is not so much the items you plan on going in, but rather the things you find once you are committed. Add that to thise things that "while we are at it we may as well.......".
Don't let me talk you out of a project, but do let me give you an idea as to what you are getting into. Not that that is a bad thing.
You could probably buy a project and keep flying your aircraft and come out about even when you sell the tripe when you are finished.
Unfortunately most cannot recover the cost invested in the project upon completion. The added cost has to be amortized against the experience, pride in accomplishment, and enjoyment of building just what you want.
There is a sizable group who have "experimentalized" their Pipers to do just that and get out of the restrictive standard category. Unfortunately the FAA has blown the whistle on that.
Fortunately the AC 23-27 Parts and Materials for Vintage Aircraft. I just completed an FAA recurrent training where the FAA inspector covered this AC in detail and it offers us lots of relief on our aircraft. If you haven't read the AC you should read it now.

Best regards,

JDB

[tyndall]

To take another view, the disadvantage to converting your airplane is the loss of one more classic Tri-Pacer. They ain't making them anymore. There are plenty of projects out there where the conversion was started and never finished or it was finished and groundlooped shortly after. I think we need to start a "Save the Tripes!" campaign.

[Steve Pierce]

From Univair:
L2200-01 STC using stock wheels and brakes including front gear and tail fittings, tail wheel spring and clamps, aluminum form channels, metal reinforcements, rear fuselage hand hold, rudder fork, installation instructions, left/right gear inner pans, left/right gear outer fairings, AN hardware kit, PA20 entry step, forming "U" channels, and springs for rudder tension. $3017.11

L2200-3A Same kit with Heavy Duty Cleveland Wheels and Brakes. $4371.96

LOPT-L2 Left side only brake system. $1441.91
LOPT-L4 Left and Right Dual brake set up $1884.53

LOPT-L6 Maule tail wheel with steering springs $530
LOPT-L7 Scott 3200 tail wheel with adapter and steering spring kit. $1017.62

So if you buy everything from Univair you are looking at $5K in basic parts not including fabric and paint.

Or you can convert a Tri-Pacer to Super Cub 3" extended gear and Maule oleo struts via Eddie Trimmer's STC. $750 for the paperwork. http://trimmeraviation.com/gear.html

[Terry E]

If you what a converted 22/20 and want to fly it in the near future sell your tri and go buy the best convert you can find and don't worry about what it cost cos you will have that much and more in it and the loss of flying time while waiting for the endless project to get done. I started 3 years ago with a $3000 project aircraft $32,000 later it still is not flying yet and Im doing all the labor in my spare time,
ie 2and a half days a week. I will try to attach some pics.

Terry.

[smcnutt]

Your rebuild is looking good. I can't imagine doing this myself...I would never have the patience/persistence to finish it. My brother has a C170 project in the hangar next to the Pacer and he says it's moving forward but I sure can't see the progress.

I wonder what percentage of these birds are lost to rebuilds that never get completed vs. those that are lost in crashes.

[jnorris]

So if you buy everything from Univair you are looking at $5K in basic parts not including fabric and paint.


Wow, that's a far cry from the $700 or so I paid to Light Plane Components for the conversion back in 1980!! :)

Cheers!

Joe

[Throttle Pusher]

When I add up the cost from Univar I get 6,500 to 7,500 dollers.
Is there realy a 500 doller difference in performance between the maule and the Scott tail wheel?
Ken

[JohnW]

Is there realy a 500 doller difference in performance between the maule and the Scott tail wheel?
Ken

There is no comparison. Most converted TriPacers "get sold" with a Maule on the back end, because if there is EVER a chance the Owner might ever need another tailwheel, he wants that Scott in storage on a shelf in his bedroom closet and "let the Buyer beware". Yes Sir, there is that much difference. It's false economy to save the bucks for your own airplane, because YOU are the "next guy" that has to live with the tailwheel. The Maule works "almost as good" new as a fifty year old Scott... for the first fifty hours. Then, the "rebuilding" starts (and it never "works like a Scott", even when it IS new!). It "breaks loose too early" when you are taxiing, taking off or landing, and it "doesn't break loose" when you want to move the airplane on the ground by hand". It wears out eight times for every ONCE with the Scott. It's ugly, makes too much noise, its nose runs, and it wants to die. Plus, it likes to imitate the front wheel on a shopping cart once it starts to get the slightest amount of wear. It uses a BUSHING instead of bearings to turn on the spindle, and it needs "special" (read: "expensive") steering springs to work, even as good as it ever can.

You WANT the Scott (actually, you "want" the ABW -Alaska Bush Wheel- "Scott 3200 clone").

Better yet... for "off airport", you REALLY "want" the ABW "Baby BushWheel" Tailwheel , with the wider fork and "doublewide" tire, if you are SERIOUS about goin' fishin'. For "normal" work (including "normal off-airport" duty), the 3200 is all most people will ever need, but on large stones (or..."small rocks") ...or even "oooh, kinda BIG rocks", the Baby Bushwheel steps over stuff that'll shred even a Scott 3200. And it rides on SAND, too (not DOWN IN IT). It's all "what you NEED".

But the Scott 3200 IS THE tailwheel for the PA-22/20 that gets "used" (as opposed to "kinda abused"), and I take it that is what you are asking about.

[nd_rice]

Are there any down falls to the Baby Bushwheel? I am guessing it wears out more quickly on pavement and more $$$ to buy. Besides those, if they are even an issue is there any rule or issue to using the BBW if pavement landings are rare and the aircraft is not equipped with tires bigger than 8.5? My reasoning is if I operate almost always off of grass with an occasional pavement landing why not use a BBW for less tailwheel penetration. I was thinking that 8.5 mains and a BBW in back would be a good set up for working on turf and pastures.

[Throttle Pusher]

Just looked at the ABW site, I think I'll go with them -vs- the scott.
Now all I have to do is Figure out if I go BBW or the diect replacement for the STW.
Thanks for the Info, this site is a great help.
Ken

[JohnW]

nd-r; there is SOMETHING about using the ABW STC for installing the 3200B tailwheel on PA-22/20 airplanes related to "requiring" tires of 26" o.d.! What exactly that is, I can only speculate (probably having to do with the minimum 9" prop-to-ground "at rest" clearance, Clarence), so before you send a check, talk to them personally. I'm not "comfortable" with claiming to know the details (because I don't), but I'll bet THEY ARE.

[Throttle Pusher]

Thanks for the heads up.
I've made several calls already,once I have decided on which parts from whom Im going to call each one to make sure every
thing works together. I'd hate to get to the end of the project just to find out that I need to buy and install different parts
To make it all work.
Ken

[Steve Pierce]

Happened to be talking to Nichole at Alaskan Bushwheels today and asked her about the 26" tires. She just got the Baby Bushwheel approved without the bigger tires as long as you meet FAR23.925 as JohnW mentioned. She said she had submitted the paperwork last Oct. and just got it back and sent to her webmaster. The PA-20 and the PA-22-20 are on their Approved Model List.



Final Installation Procedures


For


ABI-3200B or Tailwheel Fork Kit



To meet the requirements listed under Notes and Limitations, #1 on Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) SA01233SE for installation of the ABI-3200B or tailwheel fork kit on the applicable aircraft listed on the Approved Model List (AML), you must verify the information below:

(Per FAR 23.925)

Unless smaller clearances are substantiated, propeller clearances, with the airplane at the most adverse combination of weight and center of gravity, and with the propeller in the most adverse pitch position, may not be less than the following:
(a) Ground clearance. There must be a clearance of at least nine inches for each airplane with tail wheel landing gear between each propeller and the ground with the landing gear statically deflected and in the level, normal takeoff, or taxing attitude, whichever is most critical. In addition, for each airplane with conventional landing gear struts using fluid or mechanical means for absorbing landing shocks, there must be positive clearance between the propeller and the ground in the level takeoff attitude with the critical tire completely deflated and the corresponding landing gear strut bottomed. Positive clearance for airplanes using leaf spring struts is shown with a deflection corresponding to 1.5 g.

[Steve Pierce]

I have flown the Baby Bushwheel installed on several Super Cubs and the floatation is great. When landing my Clipper and Pacer on sand or soft dirt and mud my standard tailwheel acted like a plow disc and really drug the airplane down. I landed on a soft sand bar once and two of us had to push the plane because the tailwheel would just dig in. Haven't gotten to try it on a Short Wing as of yet. Gotta get busy and finish working on my Pacer so I can try out the 29" Bushwheels. :biggrin:

[Stephen]

The PA-20 I've been working on has a baby BW tailwheel and I just installed 29" mains (it had 26" mains previously). The tail sits a little higher, therefore less AOA for take-off....but, with 29's, Borer prop and160hp it is off in about 200'. He has had his tail wheel on for years and the rubber has lots to go. The sun will kill it before it is worn out. I noticed no difference in landing compared to my 3200. I land with my 3200 on gravel bars without much problem....it's useless in the snow and soft lose sand.

What ever ABW tail wheel you get...I recommend the heavy duty steering arm.

[jnorris]

I operated my Pacer for all the years I had it with a Maule solid rubber tailwheel. Never had a lick of problems, and never found anyplace around here that I couldn't go. I would NOT recommend the Maule pneumatic tailwheel. If you feel the need to go with a larger tailwheel you definitely want the Scott, but if you are happy with a solid rubber tailwheel the Maule is no problem.

Cheers!

Joe

[Kokomoto]

Does anyone have any experience with a Lang tailwheel?

[JohnW]

I took a Lang off a guy's Pacer, because the County airport was complaining that it cut through the concrete every time he taxied around. Just kidding, but the Lang does use a solid 6:00x2 tire, so it WILL provide less flotation than an 8" pneumatic tire (whether you are trying to have it "float up" on sand, riverbed rocks or just really rain-sodden turf). In reality, it's a Scott 2000 tailwheel "clone". The Scott 2000 is what USED TO BE known as the Scott 3-24B tailwheel that was the original on the base model Pacers and a hundred other "lightplanes" of the tube and fabric era. The 3-24B (also sporting the 6:00x2 solid wheel/tire) is the "nicest flying" tailwheel on a shortwing taildragger (if you are always "on airport"), but it doesn't provide much in the way of sluffing off "abuse" for off-airport, "rude", operations.

What's your "mission"? The "hunkiest of all for "off-roading" is the Baby BushWheel tailwheel (and a couple of it's "cousins"). It's a Scott 3200, only on steroids. Don't let the name fool you... there's nothing "miniature" about it. It uses a wider fork casting on a 3200 "body", and has a "baloney tire" on it instead of the standard 3200 pneumatic.

[Steve Pierce]

They work great on a light tailed airplane. I put them on Cubs and Luscombes. I like the Scott/AK Bushwhell 3200 on the Pacer.

[MichaelC]

Hi Folks,

I discovered late last week that, although the fabric on my Tri-Pacer tests better than new, whoever did the work apparently used a bizarre combination of Ceconite fabric, silver (butyrate) dope and alkyd enamel as the color/trim coats. So, if I want to reuse the fabric I would need to find a clever way to strip it to the bare fabric and go forward from there. Since I intended to repaint the airplane anyway (and unless one you experienced guys has a simple solution--that doesn't involve gasoline and matches!) I've decided to recover the thing and start new. I'm really particular about how the airplane looks when it's finished and the existing fabric was applied sloppily and without any pinked-edge tapes and it looks pretty ratty in my opinion.

So. To the point.

What am I looking at cost-wise to convert the airplane to a PA22-20 taildragger? More than half of my couple thousand hours flying has been in a taildragger and I like the way the Pacer looks, too. The Tri-Pacer is fine, too, but I believe the Pacer will outperform the Tri-Pacer slightly as well as let me go in and out of places I wouldn't want to chance with a nosewheel.

Anyhow, since I seem to be forced to do the recover, I may as well look at this conversion while I have the fabric torn off.

Thanks very much for any input you may have!!

Fly safely!

Michael

[Nathan Hiebert]

The tailwheel conversion (Univair STC-SA45RM) is expensive and requires a lot (and when I say a lot, I mean a lot) of work to install, unless of coarse you hire the work done, then it is just expensive! I have just completed the conversion on my airplane and I'm excited to see how it flies. Everything I've heard is that the tailwheel conversion makes the aircraft quit a bit quicker. My suggestion would be to either find a Pacer or an already converted PA-22/20. Just my $0.02...

[Stephen]

Michael, How much of the work do you plan on doing? Then, how much time do you have? This would be an excellent project and you can end up with a great plane.

[MichaelC]

Hi Guys,

Is Univair the sole source for the taildragger conversion STC? I'm sort of assuming that because I've read some of the other posts and that's what everyone seems to refer to when talking about it.

As for the work: I'm fortunate in that I have a very nicely equipped shop that I can stuff the fuselage/engine into while I'm working on that part. I have enough space just outside the shop itself but still in the same building where I can stick the wings/empennage, too. I have also refurbished a couple other airplanes, so I sort of know how the covering and all that stuff works. I plan to do as much of the work myself as is legal.

My time frame is that I would like to have it flying sometime next Summer, but it will take as long as it takes. I'm a technical consultant in the radio and recording business, so I sort of set my own schedule to some degree. A byproduct of that is I have and am conversant with both Solidworks and AutoCAD among other things so I can draw parts and make full size templates or send the files to a CNC shop to be fabricated for me. I will do that with the new instrument panel, for instance.

Anyway, I am not made of money, but I can spend some now and then but I'm pretty careful about how I do that and what it's for.

Stephen: I'm jealous of you! I love the San Juans so living on Lopez is really cool! I've flown up there many times and love the islands.

The odd part of this project is that I was actually looking at a Pacer but it was sold the day I was supposed to meet the owner to look at it. It turns out this Tri-Pacer belonged to the fellow's brother who had passed away, so I wound up actually having a great resource in terms of the airplane's history and so on. His nephew had inherited the plane from his Dad but didn't want to fool with it so he sold it to me. It came with two engines--one is run out, but I think it can be rebuilt and the other is almost completely assembled and will be a zero time engine that will go on the airplane.

I've flown a Tri-Pacer quite a bit, but it's been a long time. I've been flying since I was a kid (actually before I was born...my Mom went flying while she was pregnant with me--maybe that's why I love it so!) and have flown many different airplanes and loved every one of them.

Well, enough of my silly babbling...I really appreciate having you guys around to help guide me through this process! There's no substitute for experience.

Thanks again!

Michael

[Nathan Hiebert]

Well if you've got the time, then I say go for it! It has been a good and somewhat easy installation, just time consuming and aligning the landing gear mounts was somewhat tricky. You might talk with your IA (unless you are the IA) and make sure he's on board before you start. Good Luck!

[moe2goe]

My 2 cents: I feel with the price of the parts and cost of shipping these days, one might be better off going with 54pacer's first feel.
Try to find a previously converted PA22/20 that needs recovered, or one already done. I would estimate fabric, paint, disc and toe
brake conversion along with tail wheel conversion in the 11K range, not counting any extras. (panel changes, needed repairs, new instruments, ect.) You may be able to find a real good completed Pacer for 25K or so. Good Luck and have fun!

[nicka]

Another realistic question to ask yourself is "Do I want a flying airplane or a project?" Building your airplane is great and is why I am building my PA20, However I am fortunate enough that I have another airplane that I keep turn key to fly around. These projects always and I mean always take more time and money than planned on. There really is no such thing as a simple recover job, when you figure that any of these modern fabric systems could be on the airplane 20 years or better, there will be " Well I've got the fabric off, I might as well fix this or mod that and now is the time to do it." Sound familiar to anyone, point is if you have your own place to work on it, your off to a good start, but your looking at a big project and I can't say enough it really is a huge time commitment. So not to talk you out of doing this project, just make sure you really want to build an airplane, because in my experience this is usually the way these projects go. Maybe you could get something else to fly while your in the middle this?

[MichaelC]

Hi Folks!!

Thanks to each of you for giving me some insight on this conversion. I really appreciate all your words of wisdom.

I know, having done refurbs before, that you're correct: They always take longer and cost more than we expect/plan. I've learned that lesson (hopefully).

After looking at the cost of just the parts and the STC to do this, it exceeds what I paid for the whole airplane with both engines. While I am confident I can do the mods, I'm not sure it's worth the cost--especially because I need to buy new lift struts and several other items including all the materials for the recover and get that all finished in a reasonable time.

If the cost were half what it is, I would probably do it. The other thing that may happen is I will do the cover in the reverse of what I normally would, which is to say wings and empennage first, then the fuselage. During that time I can be watching for a good Pacer fuselage and maybe go that direction. I plan to rebuild and sell the second engine, so I could also sell the fuselage, too, to help offset all the expense.

I don't have the pockets to be able to afford another, flying, airplane (though I wish I could---I'd be dangerous if I ever hit the lottery!) as much as I wish I could do that, so this is the both the project and my flying machine when it's finished. I don't want to rush the project because I'm very picky about making it structurally sound and "pretty" at the same time, so it's going to take as long as it does but a TriPacer is a perfectly fine airplane and I'm sure I'll have lots of fun flying it, too.

Well, again, thanks very much to each of you! I'm sure I will have more silly questions as I proceed and it's good to know I have this resource. While I don't have a lot to contribute as yet since this my first short wing Piper, I hope someday to be able to do that, too.

Thanks!!

Michael

[sdemeyer]

Michael, not to contradict what many of these very experienced folks are telling you, but I was able to rebuild most my PA22/20 in under 8 months working only evenings and weekends and I did it well under budget. Just saying, it can be done if the motivation is there :)

[MichaelC]

Hi Scott!

Thanks for the words of encouragement! This Tri-Pacer is really in pretty good shape as it was almost a one owner aircraft and always kept in a hangar then in a nice, clean, but dark storage unit for several years. So, once the fabric is removed, it shouldn't be a lot of trouble to clean it up and get it ready to recover. I've looked inside the wings and fueslage and it's remarkable corrosion-free and such. And, unlike a couple of my other projects, this one is complete and has two engines with it (both O320's).

If I could find a nice Pacer fuselage, I think everything else is pretty much interchangeable, is it not? Sort of like the Champ and the Chief. If that doesn't happen, I think the cost of all the mods/STC's required is going to kill the PA-22/20 part. I think I can more than pay for the materials for the recover and probably the interior for the cost of all those. I really like the profile of the Pacer, but the Tri-Pacer is a good flying old airplane, too. I don't do too much STOL stuff...I mostly just go places or up to watch the sun set or camping somewhere. I use it a little for business, too, though that isn't its reason for existing by any means.

I've acquired some decent avionics, too, so before long I'll be deep into it. It would be nice if it could be flying next Summer (assuming we HAVE one of those someday). I have a cross country trip planned that will take me through the southwest and out to Nashville and back again.

I think I must live just down the road from you. I'm about a mile from the Woodland Airport on the West side of I-5 and am in the pattern so I have to grit my teeth when I'm slaving on my landscaping while all those lucky guys are out flying!! I'd love to hook up with you sometime and see your airplane.

Anyhow, thanks again..I'm anxious to be started on this thing. I have one project for a client that requires the shop for a couple weeks, then I think I can reorganize things and get the wings and tail feathers over here and get to work on recovering those. It'll be funny to assemble the thing in my driveway, tie it to a tree and fire it up while my neighbors run for cover!! 8)

Thanks again, Scott, and have a good evening!

Michael

[pinkgas]

The search engine does not like my search... What exactly is done to the airframe? Is this like a kit that is installed? Are all the same? Does one just trust the modder to have done a good job?

[Steve Pierce]

pinkgas, look at the previous page of this thread. I merged it with another thread on the same subject. I searched "taildragger conversion". I believe there are other threads on the subject.

[pinkgas]

Thanks. I searched "tail wheel conversions".

[Steve Pierce]

I usually do a google search with shortwingpipers.org in the search line along with the subject. Another helpful trick is when you find a subject you want to be able to find later or help others to find is to add tags at the bottom of the page.

[Clayton Harper]

I think we are up to about a "buck" with my $0.02. If you are thinking big tires, and are already open minded to cutting and welding, look into Trimmer Aviation's tail wheel mod.
P.S. Don't fail to do the SB-819

[WileyCoyote]

I am a newbie here, so bear with me.

I just finished converting my PA22 with the Univair STC. The cost of the parts needed only is less than $5K. When I looked at selling my airplane and buying one already converted, the economics just did not make sense.

A real concern was alignment of the gear, so I paid a lot of attention to making sure the toe in and other alignment issues were proper. The result was that the thing tracks straight as an arrow. I am really pleased with the way it handles.

The airplane was already airworthy, so I left it pretty much alone where ever I could. I TIG welded the fittings for the gear an tailwheel with minimal fabric damage. The fuselage had been done with Polyfibre, so repair was a breeze.

If welding is an issue, I would try and hire an expert. Not a lot to do, but needs to be done right.

Also installed the Univair lower cowl, which was a great improvement.

I found that the most labor intensive part of the conversion was the sheet metal work involved under the fuselage to accommodate the new gear and cover where the old gear was removed.

Airplane gained 60 lbs useful and a significant airspeed increase.

Hope this helps,

Harry

Bottom line is that when you get done, you know how the work was done. Buying one already converted should be done only if the work was done by someone whose competence can be confirmed.

[Steve Pierce]

Good info. Thanks.

[BoisePhil]

Hi there all...

New member here. I looked for this question but didn't see it. Can anyone offer a ballpark cost estimate to convert a 1958 Tri-Pacer to a tailwheel "Pacer" in 2016? I'm a retired guy with some building background (RV-4) and would be seriously assisting in the process. Would the airplane need new fuselage covering after the change?

Many thanks

BoisePhil

[BoisePhil]

Oh heck...I did find some good answers from a few years back but if anyone else wants to chime in, feel free.

BoisePhil

[PaalJP]

Check with Univair as they now own the STC for cost of parts, labor entirely another subject. Yes on the rear/under fuselage re-cover. My Colt was re-done in 79 so can't get a lot more to you.

[BoisePhil]

Thanks! I'll do that.

[PACERGUY]

I think it depends on how particular you are and how resistant to MOREBETTERDISEASE you are. I have seen some pretty major tube work done and fabric pulled up and reglued. There will be some areas that will require fabric patch or section of new fabric. If you are good at blending the paint you should not notice from 20 ft. Think hard about adding dual brakes!! New taildragger pilots sometime need help to keep it straight. Do you need bigger tires and double puck brakes? DAMM I HAVE MOREBETTERDISEASE AND IT IS NOT EVEN MY PLANE.
DENNY

[Steve Pierce]

I found a couple of thread on the subject. I need to read through them and merge them.

http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/showthread.php?6638-Cost-of-parts-Trimmer-vs-Univair-tailwheel-conversion

http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/showthread.php?7060-Taildragger-conversion-of-TriPacer/page2

http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/showthread.php?5639-Tripe-Pacer-conversion-cost

[Clayton Harper]

I think the short answer is the better part of $10,000. I did some back of the napkin estimating, I think that was the number. Some of that is not conversion cost but things you would do in addition.

[SuperPacer]

BosiePhil, I'm in the middle of a conversion on a 1960 PA22-160 that is completely metalized. As mentioned above, the basic conversion starts simple, send $3,500.00 to Univair for the basic STC package of drawings, gear, gear inner & outer pans, weld on mounting fittings, Tail Wheel Spring set, rudder / aileron interconnect dis-connect kit and a few AN bolts. What you still need: Tail Wheel assembly (i.e. Scott 3200, Toe Brake peddle set. In the Misc. Hardware / Material area would be hoses, tubing & fittings to plumb the toe brakes, fabric, tapes and finishing materials for the fabric repair etc. What you might want: Bigger Tires, Better Brakes / Wheels, relocate the oil cooler, repair the nose bowl or get new, fabricate new lower cowl or by new. Don't for get the labor bill, it can add up quick, or you can work it with your A&P IA on weekends?? And as Denny said, the MOREBETTERDISEASE can quickly double the $10,000 that Clayton mentioned.
Enjoy the day,
John
Arizona Pacer

[Stephen]

A key to a successful project is alignment of the new gear. Either do it yourself and follow advice or get a highly experienced mechanic who has done several of these successfully.

[Grantmac]

Could a person just jump directly to the Trimmer gear or would they need the Univair components first?
Seems like if you are going to jump through all that hassle you may as well go all in....

Grant

[Steve Pierce]

Could a person just jump directly to the Trimmer gear or would they need the Univair components first?
Seems like if you are going to jump through all that hassle you may as well go all in....

Grant

Here is a comparison.
http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/showthread.php?6638-Cost-of-parts-Trimmer-vs-Univair-tailwheel-conversion

[Grantmac]

That is quite an increase in cost. I suppose if done as part of a planned recover (or on a second fuselage) it would make sense. Not great on a flying aircraft though.

Grant

[Rampil]

If you really want to feel it, look up the current price of a Scott 3200.
its over $2700 at Univair.

[PaalJP]

Univair is a bit high. ABI sells a re-engineered 3200 for less than $1500 and the Bushwheel tailwheel is a deal @ near $2500

[mmoyle]

Alaska Airframes (ABI) for tail wheel and wheel and brake kits...and gear, struts, vee assembly, gear mounted....and tail spring


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[PaalJP]

Steve Pierce is a dealer for ABI

[Rampil]

Most gratefully, I found a used 3200 freshly serviced for $500
and I count myself lucky.

[PaalJP]

Kinda wonderin if Boise got discouraged. I kno I feel lucky to have gotten my TD for 11.5K

[Don D]

No way would I convert a nice Tripacer to a Pacer. Piper had the right idea in 1953. Then I'm to old to look cool and like the idea of friends flying my plane.