Leading Edge Exhaust

[taljackson]

Does anyone have any experience with the leading edge exhaust systen (LEES) for the O320 pacers? I have just received my LEES but am a little confused with the different engine mount configurations for the pacers. Apparently there is more than one engine mount floating around on the pacers and the LEES will not fit if installed on a Pacer that came with the O290. My Pacer is a 54 model with an O320 upgrade and I also have a 55 model project that came originally with a O320. Both my motor mounts measure the same. KW aviation who sells the STC could not tell me for sure what mount I had. Can anyone help?

[Steve Pierce]

All the mounts are the same from the 108 hp Clipper, 125, 135, 150, 160 hp Pacer and Tri-Pacers including the 150 hp Pawnee. I have the drawing that verifies it. I know of another Pacer that installed the Leading Edge exhaust and it had to be heavily modified to fit.

[SuperPacer]

Steve & All,
I have had the LEES exhaust on my Pacer for 6 or 7 years, with versions for the O-320 & O-360 (O-360 using Univair Dyna-Focal Mount) and while the exhaust fit, the original Heat Muff did not. My orginal set was ordered with the heat muff "bare", i.e. no inlets / outlets attached. They sent it that way, and we welded them up to fit the Pacer. The orgional LEES Heat Muff was designed for the super Cub, I beleive. We do have severial sets flying in the Ogden area. Photos can be provided.
Enjoy the day,

john

[taljackson]

Steve, All,
KW Aviation says there is a different mount. I called and ask about it today and they seem confused. Maybe they had a damaged mount. KW also said the drawing only shows one mount but they had an instilation where they couldnt get the exhaust to fit. Well I'll give it a try and let everone know how it goes. Thanks for all the help.
S/F
Tal

[Steve Pierce]

Someone probably had a bent mount. I have several bent ones and have measured out many as well. There is the dynafocal mount that Univair sells as well.

[Terry E]

Not to detract from this but I recently saw a grummen tiger exhaust on a pacer it was a nice install with the muffler under the front of the engine anyone have info on that exhaust?

Terry

[Steve Pierce]

Search Sutton Exhaust. Good system and reasonable cost as well.

[Throttle Pusher]

118311821181118011791178I know I just talked to you forgot to tell you I have photos.
Hope these help.
Ken
1177

[MN_flyer1]

That looks very nice. How much do you think it helps on power?

[Throttle Pusher]

By the dyno its 13 hp, As for mine dont know.
I put them on when I up graded to the 320-B.
But I can tell you I really like the LEE.
Here at Arlington,several people have put them on thier aircraft and have reported 200 to 250 rpm increase.
Not to shabby.

They do have a good sound to them.

[59pacer]

Looking at picture #3, it looks like you have capped off one of the hot air outlets (I guess it was supposed to provide carb heat), and put a small muff on the #4 stack which appears to supply carb heat. Any particular reason?

[Throttle Pusher]

The cap was on when I got it. That outlet is for the back seat heat. I just havent hooked it up. Dont know if I need it or not, the main heat puts out tons of heat and air volume. The heat muff also came with the LEE and is installed per DWG.

Ken

[avcan]

I have just put the LEE on my Pacer. I have seen a 150-200 rpm rise, and noticeable increase in T/O and climb performance. Everyone says it sounds "throatier" - (someone even said it sounded like an O-540) Awesome!!

[Pacerfgoe]

Those are nice looking exhausts.....but I just have to ask..... why so many weird curves. Those bends reduce flow. Are they doing that to create equal length tubes??

[avcan]

Correct. Seems to work.

[BatPacer]

Craig,

You have your bird back in the air?! That's good news. How are you liking the Trimmer gear? We need to see pics.

Paul

[avcan]

Hi Paul, yip - the Chaser is finally airbourne!!
Only got 3 hours on the engine, so still running it in, but an evil spirit did get hold of me last night, and I couldn't resist one little gravel bar and stretch of water..... at least the legs held on :)
So far, my impressions of the new mods are :
Trimmer gear - One word ... Awesome. Strong, and gives HEAPS of ground clearance, and angle of attack (16 degrees on the ground). Vis over the nose is better than I thought it would be.
Leading Edge exhaust - 150-200 more rpm. Definintely more "tow" on takeoff and climb.
Sullivan wing extension - the aircraft gets airbourne quicker, but haven't done much slow flying yet. New tips look cool.
Got some good pics coming soon.
Craig

[BatPacer]

Fantastic and congratulations. That's going to be a really fun machine. Let the adventures begin!

[59pacer]

With the LEE system giving more RPM, has anyone repitched their prop to bring the static rpm down a bit?
Any effect on fuel consumption?

[Stephen]

Crag, did the Trimmer gear slow your cruise any. I just installed extended PA-18 gear and safety cables and we lost about 10 mph cruise.

[avcan]

Stephen - Nope, haven't seen any speed change in cruise at all. Might have lost a few knots with the PA18 gear, and picked up a couple with the wing extensions.
Craig

[dplunkt]

hello Craig,
Great looking plane. I for one would like your observations on the mods and their affects going forward too. For example, Stephen notes a loss in cruise from the trimmer gear and you suggested that you may have gained that back with the Sullivan's. You should also have 10 to 15 more horses from the LEES and better fuel economy maybe. As you break the engine in and get a good idea of how these mods affect performance i would love to hear about it. I'm sold on the Sullivan's myself but the cost of the LEES puts me off a bit. Anyway, good luck with her!
Dan

[avcan]

Thanks Dan. Will definitely post some info once I have got a few more hours on the machine.
Craig

[BatPacer]

Stephen,
You too? Big gear? Cool. You kept a good secret. Is it Trimmer's STC or did you do something else. Have you added BW's yet? More cruise reduction in your future. When we added the cub gear to my plane, I lost a good 5-7 mph in cruise. Using Maule oleos (ala Trimmer) is more streamlined that external hydrasorbs so I'm not too surprised that Craig hasn't been slowed down. He was already running 31's and that's where the drag is. Look forward to seeing pics from you and first hand when you get here in July. You are really transforming that plane!

Paul

[59pacer]

I'm really interested in the Leading Edge exhaust for my PA22/20-160. The KW Aviation website has a note that there are 2 different mounts possible, and the way to check is to measure the distance from the firewall to the intersecting lower tubes. If it is 3" the exhaust may not fit, if it is 4" the exhaust will fit. Mine is 3". Anyone got any ideas about this? I thought that all the PA22 mounts were the same.

[Throttle Pusher]

No I think all the mounts are the same, except for some brackets here and there. I have a 52 TriPacer and when I put the LE on my airplane I bought a new engine mount. It was for the latest model 59-60 PA-22 160, and it was the same as my old one except the bracket for the brake master cyl. was missing. Not wanting to spend the extra money I sent it back. You will have to work on the tail pipe, I had to cut and bend it to miss the engine mount and go out the bottom of the aircraft.
I think the airplane they used for their initial install probley had a bent engine mount. I do highly recommend this exhaust for our airplanes.

[Steve Pierce]

The mounts all measure the same unless you have an aftermarket dynafocal engine mount. I have heard of several people not being able to just bolt this exhaust on. Seems to take some modification. I have installed it on Super Cubs and it is a very nice system though there is a lot going on with much tubing and it is a lot heavier.

[JoeB]

Hello Everyone,

As I get closer to collecting all of the required parts for a flying aircraft, I keep going back to the Leading Edge Exhaust system.

I spoke with Wayne from KW Aviation today about a group buy and he will be calling me back with a discounted price. A group buy will require 5 system so I'm looking for at least 4 interested PA20/PA22 owners to make this happen.

If you are unfamiliar, here is the link to their website: http://www.kwaviationinc.com/id68.html

The system requires the use of the O-320 mount and Wayne also reported that due to the larger tubing size there can be clearance issues with the steering rod at full deflection (on PA22).

BTW - If anyone has a good O-320 mount they would like to sell, please PM me!

Best regards,
Joe

[Twofieros]

I am very interested. If I remember right there is a particular mount that doesn't work. How would you figure out if your mount works? Did he give any idea of when this exhaust will eliminate the 50hour AD?

[JoeB]

I am very interested. If I remember right there is a particular mount that doesn't work. How would you figure out if your mount works? Did he give any idea of when this exhaust will eliminate the 50hour AD?

AD 68-05-01 Exhaust Muffler Inspection per paragraph (a) and (b) no longer applies with the Leading Edge Exhaust System installed. The shroud still requires annual inspection but I understand it is much less labor intensive due to the exhaust system design (maybe someone with experience with this can add details - Steve Pierce or others?)
And to determine which mount you have, measure between the firewall and the intersecting lower tubes. If 3", its an O-290 mount if 4" its an O-320 Mount.

[Curly]

Joe - having recently spent hours researching engine mounts, I have a problem with the 3" (0290) or 4" (0320) measurements.

I have two mounts - one 0320 (originally Tripacer) and one 0235 (originally Colt) and they are identical - 3" clearance (3 1/4" from firewall to cluster centerline).
I have a copy of the original Piper engine mount drawing and the clearance between the firewall and the lower cluster is not shown but measures (rough - it's only a copy) around 3".

I would be interested in knowing where the 4" figure came from - LES said they used an 0320 mount to design their exhaust system but was it a new PA22 mount or just a generic 0320 mount?

We have a local Pacer fitted with the LES system - he is checking the clearance on his mount to see what it is.

I cannot justify the $4000 at the moment but for that sort of money, I certainly would not want to do any "modifications" to make it fit.

[JoeB]

Hi Curly,
I'm definitely not the expert, I borrowed those specs from their website. It sounds like the increase in performance came from equal length runners and larger tubing which probably requires the additional clearance. Since I'm requiring a mount as well as an exhaust system this doesn't really effect me, but I can see how it would deter those that don't need a mount!
-Joe

[Throttle Pusher]

All the mounts are the same,except for some braketts on the early Pa-22 for the brake master cylinder. The later ones dont have it.

[JoeB]

I just spoke with Wayne and with 5 orders the price will be $3295 ($500 off each one).

Thanks for the feedback on the engine mount design. Seems many questions arise with every modification.

We did discuss the engine mount crossbar clearance on the phone and Wayne confirmed that it seems the earlier mounts did indeed have less firewall clearance and there was a design change on the later versions. When this was implemented is unclear.
It would be interesting to see the results of everyone's findings if they measured their mounts and reported back. Maybe we could tell what change was made that would have required the mount change and/or an approximate serial # when this took place?

Edit: Just spoke with Univair as they have 5 different part #s listed for PA20 and PA22. Obviously the required brackets and such for the PA22 would have a different part # but there are 3 different versions of the PA22 mount listed:

PA-20 Lycoming 115-125 hp.,
1950-1951...................................U11786-000
PA-20 Lycoming 125-135 hp.,
1952-1953...................................U11786-013
PA-22 Lycoming 125 hp.,
SN 1-353 ....................................U11786-012
PA-22 Lycoming 135 hp.,
SN 354-3386 ..............................U11786-014
PA-22 Lycoming 150-160 hp.
SN 3387 and up, and Colt ..........U11786-015

Univair will take some measurements of their inventory and call me back with their findings.

[Steve Pierce]

Joe, my experience has been that all the mounts from the PA16, all the 20s and the 22s including the Pawnee are the same. Verified through the drawings and the actual mounts. Iwill double check some mounts though.

[JoeB]

Joe, my experience has been that all the mounts from the PA16, all the 20s and the 22s including the Pawnee are the same. Verified through the drawings and the actual mounts. Iwill double check some mounts though.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info.

I just did a quick search and I think ThrottlePusher nailed it in a previous posting, http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/showthread.php?6009-Leading-Edge-Exhaust/page3&highlight=motor+mount

"No I think all the mounts are the same, except for some brackets here and there. I have a 52 TriPacer and when I put the LE on my airplane I bought a new engine mount. It was for the latest model 59-60 PA-22 160, and it was the same as my old one except the bracket for the brake master cyl. was missing. Not wanting to spend the extra money I sent it back. You will have to work on the tail pipe, I had to cut and bend it to miss the engine mount and go out the bottom of the aircraft.
I think the airplane they used for their initial install probley had a bent engine mount. I do highly recommend this exhaust for our airplanes. "

[JoeB]

And another update...Univair has called back and the answer is, "All of the mounts (Pa20 and PA22) measure the same distance, 3 inches"

[Pacerfgoe]

Joe...Make sure that you pass that on to LEES and see what they say....

[Twofieros]

I measured mine yesterday and found it to be 3" as everyone suspects. I have a 58 tripacer that was 160hp from the factory and still has the original mount. If this exhaust will work I'm in 100%.

Tim

[JoeB]

Joe...Make sure that you pass that on to LEES and see what they say....

OK, good news.

I have discussed this with Wayne a few times today and after some research, measurements, and phone calls he has responded that the motor mount should have 3 inches of clearance between the lower intersecting tubes and the firewall, not 4.

Apparently he experienced 3 installations that had issues due to 4" of clearance, this required the replacement of the motor mount (to get 3" of clearance). Somehow this information got switched causing this confusion. It is also unknown why these three airplanes had an additional 1" clearance in the mount.

[JoeB]

I measured mine yesterday and found it to be 3" as everyone suspects. I have a 58 tripacer that was 160hp from the factory and still has the original mount. If this exhaust will work I'm in 100%.

Tim

Ok, great! So, here is the list. Who else is in? (and any questions, concerns, discussions are encouraged!)
1 - Joe
2 - Tim
3 - ?
4 - ?
5 - ?

[Curly]

2786278827892787

Joe - My Colt was manufactured in 1962, S/N 22-9497, i.e. one of the last PA22 types to be manufactured. According to the log books the engine mount is original and has the 3" clearance, so where did LEE get the "design change" from and what drawing number is it?

I have spent hours researching this (mainly because I need to build a jig to repair Patsy's mount and I don't trust anything except the original drawings.) The four tubes that form the cluster (2 long and 2 short diagonals) are in the same plane as the two tubes that run from the bottom engine mount points to the firewall so to get 4" of clearance you would need to move the engine mounts forward. This would obviously affect the C of G so I don't think that's the answer.

We need to hear from owners who already have the LEE systems installed - were any modifications required to make it fit?

[Throttle Pusher]

Curly...fromJoeB's post

OK, good news.

I have discussed this with Wayne a few times today and after some research, measurements, and phone calls he has responded that the motor mount should have 3 inches of clearance between the lower intersecting tubes and the firewall, not 4.

Apparently he experienced 3 installations that had issues due to 4" of clearance, this required the replacement of the motor mount (to get 3" of clearance). Somehow this information got switched causing this confusion. It is also unknown why these three airplanes had an additional 1" clearance in the mount.

[59pacer]

I'm interested in buying the exhaust also. It would need to be freighted to Australia, but it's only money!
Just to add another point--the Piper parts manual specifies quite a different mount p/n for the 150-hp with the hartzell cs prop. That mount has a circular reinforcement ring around the engine attach points. The LEE system fits that one, too.

[JoeB]

I see that the L.E.E.S website is now updated with the motor mount info in the FAQs, an apology for any confusion and confirmation that you should have 3" of clearance.

The shortwing owners with this system may not be watching this thread too closely as they have already purchased a system. There are some older threads with positve owner feedback but if anyone has additional info they would like to share I'm sure we would all like to hear it!
How the system is holding up over time, fitment, maintenance pro's/con's with the system installed, exhaust/firewall heat transfer, cabin heat operation, and anything else.

59pacer, It is only money!
Shall I add your name on the list?
1 - Joe
2 - Tim
3 - 59Pacer
4 - ?
5 - ?

[59pacer]

Put me on the list, thanks.
I'd be interested to know if anyone has repitched their prop with the increased power.

[kloudking1]

I didn't see the Colt listed in the LEES website. Is there a exhaust for the Colt with a Lyc. 0235?

[Steve Pierce]

It will fit the O-235 but weighs more than stock.

[kloudking1]

Steve,
Would the STC cover the Colt also and would I see a HP increase? A light-weight starter might balance out the weight. But if there isn't a good HP increase, then I can't justify the $3000. I can do the muffler inspections on the stock unit myself.

[JoeB]

...but weighs more than stock.

Yes, this is true. The system is 2.6lbs heavier than stock.
But with the additional weight of the thicker wall, larger diameter, stainless steel tubing are benefits to consider:
From the L.E.E.S website, FAQ: "It is made from 321 stainless steel to take the heating and cooling expansion better. The materials used are 40 percent thicker. The clamps are of a much better design and easer to install. Other benefits are increases in power, economy and cooler temperatures. The stacks are farther from the cowl and the muffler has much more clearance from the firewall and engine making it much easier to remove the shroud for inspection. The cabin heat hook up is the same as original with plenty of heat for the cabin and the right hand risers provide heat for the carburetor.
And how’s this, the Leading Edge Exhaust System comes with a 10yr 1,000 hr warranty (transferable when you sell your aircraft)."

When I get a chance, I will weight the stock generator and starter and compare to the alternator and lightweight starter that will replace them. As much as that generator weighs I would guess that I will make up that 2.6 lbs right there!

[Grantmac]

If it weren't for the fact that I just put $7K into my wings I'd be all over this. I wonder if its STC'd for a Clipper with an 0-290d?

-Grant

[JoeB]

Would the STC cover the Colt also and would I see a HP increase?

Hi kloudking1,
I would suggest giving Wayne at KW Aviation a call, I'm sure he would be willing to discuss and work with you on this process if you decide to go this route. His # is 801-920-4518
-Joe

[kloudking1]

Thanks Joe. I'll check it out. I plan on doing the light weight starter, alternator, and upgraded radio. The powersafe battery I installed has already saved me 14 pounds I think!

[Throttle Pusher]

A light weight oil cooler will save you around 4 lbs as well.
The LEE doesn't rap around the front of the engine, their for you don't get the heat right on the starter and gen.it also moves that weight farther aft.
When I installed it on mine I had to modify the exhaust pipe to miss the engine mount and the steering rod. In doing this I installed and removed the exhaust multiple times. It really goes in and out really easy. The first time takes a little time to figure out where the squiggly tubs all goes, but is ano brainier after that.
As for heat out put, it puts out allot more heat and volume.

[dplunkt]

I'm thinking hard about this one. When is the deadline to be in or out?

Dan

[JoeB]

I'm thinking hard about this one. When is the deadline to be in or out?

Dan

Hi Dan,
Right now we are at 3 confirmed and I have a few private messages saying "I'm interested" or "I'm thinking about it".
It's a big investment so I can understand needing some time to think so that's why I'm not really pushing for a deadline. I know I spent some late nights reading and searching around for alternatives but I just kept coming back around to this one.
Keep thinking about it and let me know.
-Joe

[JoeB]

Ok, looks like we are almost there! Who's going to be #5???

1 - Joe
2 - Tim
3 - 59Pacer
4 - Tom
5 - ?

[59pacer]

What sort of discount will they give us for 4 buyers now? I need to get mine built, delivered, and installed, before the missus get's back from her 6 week vacation!

[JoeB]

What sort of discount will they give us for 4 buyers now? I need to get mine built, delivered, and installed, before the missus get's back from her 6 week vacation!

You might get a free hat or maybe a sticker, but you won't get a discount. I just called to ask, it's going to take 5.

[dplunkt]

I'm thinking, I'm thinking...don't pressure me!

How does this work, do we pay a down payment and then the rest upon delivery? I undertand that these have to be built and are not sitting in stock.

[JoeB]

No pressure Dan, we'll give you a few more hours to think about it (or days, whatever).

Yes, Wayne said that we can give him a call to confirm the order with payment info (and let him know what the deadline is if anyone needs the exhaust system before their wife finds out...).
Then, when he has the group confirmation of five (and can meet any deadlines that may have been set), he will charge the deposits to begin the order process. If I remember correctly, the website says 40% down and the balance before shipment.

I am going to call Wayne in the morning to get the process started, I would encourage the others that are ready to order to do the same! Wayne's # is 801-920-4518

[Twofieros]

Mine can be last. I've got at least a year before I'm flying again.

[JoeB]

Did anyone else call Wayne today to confirm your order for the group buy?

[Twofieros]

I did not call yet. I spent the day making a paint booth and priming my control surfaces. I will try to call tomorrow.

[Twofieros]

I called wayne. I'm all set now. Thanks again for setting this up Joe!

Tim

[JoeB]

Great, thanks for the update Tim.

[Tom]

Called Wayne today to confirm my order. Looks like he still needs to hear from one more person to get the group buy confirmed for sure.

Tom

[JoeB]

Just spoke with Wayne, it seems we have 4 orders absolutely confirmed and the 5th just needs to contact him to finish some details.

If anyone is on the fence, now is the time to get off as the group buy is about to close!

[dplunkt]

I'm off the fence, I'll give wayne a call today to tomorrow.

[dplunkt]

By the way, does anyone have an estimate of the installation time?

[JoeB]

I'm off the fence, I'll give wayne a call today to tomorrow.

There you go, just think how much 100LL you can buy with the money saved in this group buy! It's like free gasoline!

(You will be #6 once you call Wayne and confirm)

[Twofieros]

There you go, just think how much 100LL you can buy with the money saved in this group buy! It's like free gasoline!

(You will be #6 once you call Wayne and confirm)

I like the sound of that! I was worried we would be stuck at 4 people. Nice!

[JoeB]

If anyone is interested, the group buy is open until the end of the month.
As long as the jig is out for the fabrication, the discount will still apply!

[jmgross]

Just spoke with Wayne and put my order in. Even though I'm a couple weeks late he still let me in on the discount.

[Yellow Baron]

Is this discount still going?

[dplunkt]

Wayne told me yesterday that they had a delay in getting the tubing, so you can probably still get in on the discount as they are still building the exhausts.

[Yellow Baron]

ok - will call him - thx

[Yellow Baron]

Talked to Wayne - $500 discount is still on until the last one in the group gets shipped!!! - So I am #7 apparently, with the six- to eight weeks lead time plenty others can still think about joining in.
- looks like the shortwingers are turning that plant into a sausage factory ...:D

[Curly]

looks like the shortwingers are turning that plant into a sausage factory ...:icon_biggrin:

Just goes to show what can be achieved when you have people with a bit of "get up and go" running the website.

[cschmokel]

Is there another seat open on this bus? I've had my eye on the LE for awhile now .. I'm game.

Carl

[Yellow Baron]

Phone Wayne - it is still going till the last guy takes delivery

[cschmokel]

Put in my order with Wayne .. this site rocks :)

[dplunkt]

According to Wayne they've started bending pipe. Looking forward to an extra 15 horses!

[59pacer]

Anyone got any info on likely delivery date for the bulk purchasers? Wayne can be a bit hard to contact.

[JoeB]

Anyone got any info on likely delivery date for the bulk purchasers? Wayne can be a bit hard to contact.
I'll make an effort to get an update from Wayne today, I've been wondering as well but have been extremely busy with work the last couple weeks.
Update to follow

[JoeB]

Hello Everyone,
Please don't shoot the messenger, here is the latest update I received on our 'L.E.E Group Buy':

"I just got an email from Dane and he’s back in production. But I don't
have a firm delivery date yet. I apologize for misinforming you that he
had most the pipes bent up. Dane and I got our wires crossed. I thought he
was talking about our PA-20 PA-22 systems, instead he was talking about
the orders I had for a Cessna 206. Anyway I just received an email, he
said he would be welding the pipes up by the end of next week. I'll be in
contact with him next Friday and let you know how things are progressing.
I apologize again for the misunderstanding and thank you for your patience
Wayne"

I just sent Wayne another email as (if I have the timeline correct) I should have received another update last Friday and did not.

-Joe

[JoeB]

Great news today, here is the latest that I just received from Wayne:

"Hi Joe
I certainly understand your frustration. And apologize for the lack of
communication. This might help a little. The problems with the bender
turned out to be caused by a bad mother board in the computer. That was
resolved a couple of days ago.

(Last names removed by me to protect identity - Joe)
The first system going to Lloyd S was shipped yesterday.
The rest will go on the first come first served bases.
Yours should go out before the weekend.
Then Harold F, Tom L, Tim H, Kennett S, Joseph L, and Carl P.

I’ll keep you posted as each one is sent.
Again I apologize for the long wait and excuses.
Thank you for your patients.
Sincerely
Wayne"

If anyone after me would like my spot on the list I will swap (as my engine is not hung quite yet), just let me know!

Best regards,
Joe

[taildraggerpilot]

I may be interested also. However, I can't find the pricing for a PA22/20 on the website. What is the total cost with the discount?

[JoeB]

I may be interested also. However, I can't find the pricing for a PA22/20 on the website. What is the total cost with the discount?

With 5 it's $500 off, so $3250. The group has to be close to 9 or 10 so maybe the discount will be better?

[JoeB]

The tubing bender broke again, they are waiting for parts and expect 10 day delay....

[59pacer]

Do you have any idea where they are at in the process?
I was under the impression that mine was almost ready to ship!

[Darrel Starr]

Hi folks, I usually hang out at the Super Cub website -- restored SC N18SY which has a 2003 vintage LEE. Anyway, I talked to Dane this last week -- he said he was flying to Cleveland on the 23rd to talk to the tube bender manufacturer.
By the way, a great system but don't let the Overboard/tail pipe vibrate against the firewall or cowl. That will crack the muffler. Not the fault of the system, inattention of the installer.

[59pacer]

I had the final payment taken out of my Visa card late last week, but have heard nothing about it being sent or even the freight amount taken out. I'm getting nowhere with phone calls and emails. Any ideas from closer than Australia?

[JoeB]

I had the final payment taken out of my Visa card late last week, but have heard nothing about it being sent or even the freight amount taken out. I'm getting nowhere with phone calls and emails. Any ideas from closer than Australia?

I've been on the road for the last week in fairly remote areas of the USA with no access to a computer and very limited phone. Tomorrow will be my first day back in the office so I won't be able to offer much help then either. I'll do my best to get you some info ASAP since you're having such trouble.
You are sending emails to Wayne? That seems to be a good way to communicate with him for me
-Joe

(I just sent him an email, will let you know)

[Darrel Starr]

I know from dealing with Dane over the last month that he is feeling a little strung out -- probably because the tube bender is not working. I get the feeling that he doesn't quite have enough help, is working 10 hr days then trying to communicate later. I don't really know him, we have only talked on the phone over the years, but I have always been treated honorably by him so I would counsel patience while he works through a bad spot in the business with a broken essential tool.
About a month ago he was gone on another trip for 10 days and didn't have anyone around to cover the phone and emails. Now he is in Cleveland so I would expect that you won't be able to communicate with him until he returns. I hope that helps.
By the way, although I currently fly a Super Cub, I bought a Tri-Pacer back in 1972 while living in Arizona. My wife and I restored it and flew it on trips ranging from California to Ohio. It was great. The last I heard of N3643P, it had been converted to a Pacer and was living in Alaska, still with the Poly-Fiber on it that Vivian & I installed but nicely repainted.

[Steve Pierce]

It would be cool to find yours and Vivian's old Tri-Pacer next time I get to go to Alaska Darrel.

[Darrel Starr]

Steve, it would be great to get some fresh pictures of it. I wrote a letter to the owner several years ago (maybe 10 yrs ago) and got the following two pictures. The current registration puts it in Fairbanks. So if you happen to come across it, about 100 pictures would be what works for me:lol:. -- we had a lot of fun in this bird back when our 45 year old son was little. For instance, when we lived in Phoenix, one of our favorite trips was to stop at the Grand Canyon South Rim in the morning, then fly over the village a few hundred feet above the rim over the El Tovar Lodge, cross over the canyon then descend part way down and fly the canyon upstream, climb above the narrow Marble Canyon and look down into it as we traveled to Page. The home trip usually was through Monument Valley with a stop at Goulding's Trading post ( then gravel, facing the stone wall the strip with a significant step in the middle) -- anyway, fun times. We were coming back on that route just coming off the Mogollon Rim when we saw something in the air ahead of us -- another plane? a big bird? No, it was a paper grocery bag just floating on a thermal about 5000 ft above the ground, amazing!
314931503151

[Darrel Starr]

I just noticed that the registration for N3643P has an address of Fairbanks, Kenai Peninsula -- that can't be right so maybe the plane is on the Kenai somewhere???

[Steve Pierce]

I noticed that. I will have to ask Vicki if she knows the plane. I didn't notice it at FAI the couple of times I have been there.

[dplunkt]

Anyone with new news? I noticed the the KW Aviation web site is no longer up. That make sme a little uncomfortable.

[JoeB]

Anyone with new news? I noticed the the KW Aviation web site is no longer up. That makes me a little uncomfortable.
Unfortunately I haven't heard anything since Oct 20th, I just sent another email asking for an explanation and update.
-Joe

[cschmokel]

I could be wrong, but I think he simply moved to a different website. I remember him telling me his email was going to change as well and not to use his old email. Anywhere, here's the new site (I think).

http://www.wemakeyoufly.com/

[Steve Pierce]

That is the Leading Edge Exhaust website. K&W Aviation was a shop in Utah that got an STC for the LEE on the Pacer/Tri-Pacer.

[JoeB]

OK, there is no reason for alarm.
The website being down has nothing to do with exhaust system delays and both will be up an running again soon.
Most importantly, repairs to the tubing bender should be completed soon. Dane is "waiting for an adapter to connect the (ribbon) cord to the computer"
I will update if I hear anything further, I'm getting excited waiting for this big box to arrive!

[Yellow Baron]

I got lucky - Dane (Wayne's supplier, the actual manufacturer in Alaska) shipped me a system that someone returned because of a long mount versus short mount issue (not sure what that means, and not sure how I got lucky - anyway), it arrived in Africa and I fitted it yesterday.
Not sure I if shouldn't start a new thread for with pics, performance etc?

[Raymond LeBleu]

I am interested in the Leading Edge Exhaust and hope it is not too late to get in on the group buy.....Raymond LeBleu.....rymndlebleu@yahoo.com

[Steve Pierce]

I would keep your Pirep on this thread to make it easy for others to find in the future. Anxious to hear how the installation goes and the performance.

[Gilbert Pierce]

I got lucky - Dane (Wayne's supplier, the actual manufacturer in Alaska) shipped me a system that someone returned because of a long mount versus short mount issue (not sure what that means, and not sure how I got lucky - anyway), it arrived in Africa and I fitted it yesterday.
Not sure I if shouldn't start a new thread for with pics, performance etc?

I would sure be interested what your static RPM was before and after you installed the LE Exhaust.

[Throttle Pusher]

Give it to us strait...We can take it!!:o


No, really, we really want to know the delectable details.;)

Ken

[Yellow Baron]

Guys,
reporting back on this thread and in two parts. Part I now - to satisfy the curious ones, and Part II a bit later when I collected some flight data and take some more shots.

As per earlier the kit arrived at my AMO, who is on a little farm next to the Kruger Park, about 2hs flight away from where I stay - but I got the plane from them (it is a Christian Mission) , I worked with them for +10 years now and he is one of the few that does N-Regs in South Africa. They also do a fantastic job and I get to stay and work with them for all my annuals and bigger mods.

So I flew there to fit it on Thursday and Friday and am still here for the weekend, flying it back today Sunday.
Let me start by saying the box from leading edge arrived by regular mail in one piece no problem, all the way from Alaska to Africa. Dan had supplied tracking numbers and the ususal comms. Everything was there shiny and nice. Paperwork arrived separately and in electronic form. The hardcopies struggled a bit with the local Post Office but never mind.
The flying conditions are important to mention: South Africa is currently in a heat wave, highveld temperatures around Joburg are 30 degrees Celscius and more at 4500"-5500" elevation.

Normally on a slighly less hot mid to late 20ties degrees Celcius day I get 23" MP and 2300 RPM out of my O-360 @ 4500" field height @ 27 degrees Celscius.

When I departed Wednesday late afternoon it was much hotter than that, also the runway/taxiway I normally use for my 'reference take-off' was and still is under re-construction, so I have to wait to compare like for like take-off / static RPM till all that is back to normal.

The farm is at 2900" has a severly sloping 550m grass runway (often tailwind take-offs) and temps are as high as 37 Celcius yesterday at 4pm when I did a a little second test flight. - So there are too many facors squewing the picture there. - although the runway felt a bit longer with the new sytsem in place... all in the mind I am sure :icon_wink:

Back to the box ... given the heatwave the AMO opted to start work at 5am - by 9am the system was on - all plug and play. Rest of the time was spent with the routing of hoses, drilling EGT probes etc. and by early afternoon I did a run-up and testflight. Note: there is long and short mount version. I have a apparently a shortmount, long mount moves the muffler back towards the firewall which I wouldn't have space for anyway.

I took a pic of the tailpipe clearance (see attached - proves the point above) and Dan and Wayne provided instant support ideas how to improve it. As the engine pulls forward under load anyway, even with the 7mm clearance it never touches.

3215

So all in all a very pleasant experience.
First start up was fun - engine sounds a bit thoatier and deeper (a bit lower frequency sound) but not necessarily loader. Certainly nothing the DC noise attenuation can't handle.

Run up was fine CHTs and EGTs seemed in a narrower band than before, which I like. Engine runs a bit smoother, take off run was difficult to judge, the whole downhill / tailwind / density altitude scenario making all that very subjective for now.
So I will refrain from sharing much more un-reliable data for now. Here is what I can say for part I: subjectively it feels better/smoother/stronger all around.

My EGTs CHT prior were differing from coldest much more widely - now everything sit within 10-15 degrees of each other at a 'like for like' cruise altitude and OAT temperature to before. That is an undisputable improvement. Also noted 2-3 knots extra TAS cruise and 100 RPM or so at the same 20MP that I use - but that is less scientific.

Fuel consumption: on the first flight flow readigs were a bit erratic i.e. swinging by 1 gal up and down per second, requiring eyeballing an average - and if you look at the other pic it was because of the main fuel line taking too much heat which both the Exhaust System and Fuelflow Meter documentation don't recommend - I had that before when upgrading to the O-360 and needed to re-route the main-line. There needs to be a loop and a highpoint for the air/vapour etc. depending on where the flow sensor sits relative to the carb etc.


3214
So that's what Friday was spent on - rerouting the main fuel-line and fabricating a little heat-shield - pics will follow in Part II.

Yesterdays second test flight showed the same subjective performance improvements as before but now the fluel flow has stablelized nicely - again nothing scientific yet but it looks like almost 0.5 of gallon/h down at the same cruise power setting at that same altitude that produced that extra 2-3 knots and 100 RPM.

Will send Part II and pics in a weeks time, when I had an opportunity to reproduce static RPM in similar conditions.

[Yellow Baron]

Quick question: what would the old system be worth to anybody? - it is still in nice full airworthy condition but just has a few cracks welded up here and there. Nothing major after 2600 TT - Am looking at selling it back to the guy who has my old O-320 as a spare, just need a fair number to quote him.

[be77solo]

So, curious, this Group Buy still available and has anyone else received their exhaust? I currently own a Colt, and in the market for a Tri-Pacer, so if it's still a legit group buy and a worthy upgrade, I am very interested. Thanks for any info.

[JoeB]

So, curious, this Group Buy still available and has anyone else received their exhaust? I currently own a Colt, and in the market for a Tri-Pacer, so if it's still a legit group buy and a worthy upgrade, I am very interested. Thanks for any info.

Hi be77solo,
Give Wayne at KW Aviation a call, 801-920-4518. Let him know that you would like to join the shortwingpipers.org group buy. Since the systems are still being produced for our initial order I believe he will still honor the group buy price quote.
I hope it works out for you!
Best regards,
Joe

[be77solo]

Thanks for the reply and information, I will call him tomorrow... Curious, have you received your exhaust yet? Is it a noticeable improvement?

[JoeB]

I am interested in the Leading Edge Exhaust and hope it is not too late to get in on the group buy.....Raymond LeBleu.....rymndlebleu@yahoo.com


Hi Raymond,
I think you can still get in on it, give Wayne a call tomorrow as well.
Maybe you could ask him if any additional discounts will apply due to the additional orders, I would guess we are over 10 now?
Wayne's # is 801-920-4518.
-Joe

[JoeB]

Curious, have you received your exhaust yet? Is it a noticeable improvement?
I have not, the equipment malfunction put the production on backorder quite a few weeks.
Unfortunately I will not be able to report on any before/after performance claims as I have never flown my PA20 and it is also getting the 0-290 replaced with an 0-320.

(Truthfully I only have about 20 minutes of flight time in a Pacer and 10-15 minutes of that was as a passenger!)

[be77solo]

Fair enough, thanks for the info and working this out. I will call Wayne and see what he says.

[Raymond LeBleu]

Hello All....Spoke to Wayne....still time to get in on the group buy.....he said I still had about two weeks to make my order......!

[MN_flyer1]

You guys got me itching so bad a I can't stand it. The other name on the bank account still says no. :) It is best to keep her happy.

[Yellow Baron]

Here we go - link to the pics of my exhaust upgrade - the only issue is my main fuel line that I need to re-route to eliminate possible air-bubbles that cause the high fluctuations on the display (+/- 0.5 gal/h every second) - until I fix this I can't tell how much fuel the new exhaust is saving.

https://picasaweb.google.com/112324868625407088398/ExhaustInst2?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJbYgeey7JrvPQ&feat=directlink (https://picasaweb.google.com/112324868625407088398/ExhaustInst2?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJbYgeey7JrvPQ&feat=directlink)

Performance all around is about 100 RPM better than before at my high density altitude (8500 feet).

Take-off is noticibly shorter, climb rate 100-150 feet better and cruise is 3-5 knots better at about 9500 feet density altitude. In all about 5%tage points more HP (from 58% to 63%) at my altitude, at sea-level I suspect it could easily be double.

[Steve Pierce]

Great photos, thanks for posting them. Should help others when they start installing theirs.

[JoeB]

Agree, great photos! That will certainly be helpful when the time comes to install.

[59pacer]

Anyone got any info on how the 'group buy' is going? All I'm getting is a lot of info about bender problems, but nothing about when!

[Terry E]

Has anyone else got there exhaust yet?

[59pacer]

Last info I had was that the bender won't be fixed until January, and then he will start clearing the backlog of orders. It will be a while yet!

[Yellow Baron]

Hi, just thought I'd give an update on the only system shipped and installed so far. Temperatures around Joburg during South African Summer are till above the 90 ties mark.
I am still experiencing big swings in fluel-flow fluctuations due to bubbles in the fuel line.

I now moved the main fuel line further away from the new exhaust and the heat from the oil cooler ... mounted a temp probe on the line but am still getting very high readings - like 200 degrees F - on the main line.

See pics... might have to build a little box around the whole fuel pump, flow transducer etc. and direct outside air onto it like on the PA28s ...33333334

[dplunkt]

FYI,
Hi Dan
You’ve heard right. Thelatest is the computer and wiring harness is being assembled now in Californiaand is scheduled to be delivered, installed and operator trained on thecontrols by about the 15th of January. The mufflers are being built now. Thepipes will be bent, welded and polished when the bender is back in operation.I'm told it will take 2 days to complete and ship a system that has a mufflerready. Dane is doing all he can to make this schedule.

Thank you for the enquire

Wayne

[Terry E]

as they say BUMP to TOP... here it is the middle of Feb any one else get there exhaust???????

[dplunkt]

This is the last update I recieved Jan 27.

Hi Guys, I just got this email from Leading Edge. Looks like we'reabout there. Wayne

Wayne,
the tech has been here all week rewiring the complete system.Extremely overwhelming… I must say. He’s a very sharp guy. He is checking thewiring now. Talk about very in-depth circuitry…. I can’t begin to explain. Ifall goes well with circuit checks we are going to try bending tomorrow. I willhave to let you know later how the circuit checks came out. He is planning onleaving on Sunday if everything progresses in the right direction.
I built a couple of my customer’s mufflers and shrouds and now it’sback to your group. I have the mufflers, shrouds etc built al the way up to #7. I just pulled the parts to build his. Luckily I had some repair work or Iwould have had to close the doors. Thanks to all the people you see flying on“Flying Wild Alaska”.
If the bender gets back on line do you think you cane get some moresales? It has been a very rough road since the 1st week in October.I’m very thankful God answered my prayers bringing customers like you alongthat kept me in business.
Talk to you soon, Dane

[59pacer]

I received an email from Dane yesterday to say that mine (the first) had been sent, so the others SHOULD follow.

[JoeB]

My system arrived today. Haven't had a chance to look at it but likely will in the coming days

[Pacerfgoe]

Looks like I may have to jump in here too....just did an inspection of my muffler and the internals are trashed, one side of the "flame arrester" 80% missing.

[dplunkt]

Pacerfgoe, that was the condition of your brand new leading edge exhaust?

[Pacerfgoe]

Pacerfgoe, that was the condition of your brand new leading edge exhaust?

NO NO NO......thats the condition of my old factory exhaust, it's time to get a new leading edge system!

[Twofieros]

You worded that do wrong! I was frantic all day at work thinking there was something wrong with a new leading edge system... I feel much better now.

Tim

[Pacerfgoe]

Well, I spent the last couple of days pondering and have decided to go ahead and get in on the group buy. Although the stock system has lasted many years, I can see many repairs have been made over time, and with my muffler in the shape it is now, it's in need of further repairs. I think this new system will be a nice safety advancement over the old one, and thats how I'm justifying spending the money.
I'm now # 11 on the list......

[dplunkt]

I just recieved this big box full of pipes and fittings today. Now I gotta find someone to install the thing. I am really looking forward to hearing the sound and feeling to added horses.

[Twofieros]

I got mine today also. Everything looks great! I'm still years away from being able to use it but I'm sure it will look good in my parts warehouse.

Anyone want a used pa22-160 exhaust? I can officially say I have one for sale now.

Tim

[59pacer]

Just been trying to install mine. The best clearance I can get is about 1/4" between the lower front of the muffler heat shroud and the engine mounts, and 3/8" between the rear of the exhaust outlet tube and the engine mount. Has anyone done any better?

[Terry E]

anyone installed there new LEE yet? I was hoping to see how the group buy like it. anyone else get it in the mail?

[JoeB]

My LEE is still in the box.
I need to find some time to get down to the hangar and start picking up some nuts and bolts to get this airplane all back together (now that I have all the big parts, engine/prop/mount/exhaust/etc).

Unfortunately I have to walk by the 'new' airplane when I open the hangar doors, then I get distracted and go flying. I don't even see the Pacer sitting in the back...

[Steve Pierce]

Your wife will motivate you when she wants to go and carry her stuff. :)

[59pacer]

Mine's installed after a bit of fiddling. Certainly performance is up a bit, sounds 'throatier'. The 45 degree cutoff of the exhaust tube effectively brings the exhaust stream closer to the bottom of the fuselage than the old exhaust, so I did a check of the carbon monoxide levels in the cabin. My old tester showed that they were averaging almost 45 ppm, which is just ok by our rules (50ppm max), but I'm getting a new, calibrated tester tomorrow (hopefully) and will let you know what transpires--possibly by early next week.

[skywaggin]

59pacer, I'm definitely interested in your results. I tested my CO levels last night (old stock system) and they are just below 50ppm but spike considerably more in slow flight.
Therefore, I'm strongly considering a new exhaust system, but also wondering about exhaust blowing up under the fuselage.
It does not quite make sense that I have these rather large openings around the bungees in the exhaust's air stream either....

[JoeB]

Your wife will motivate you when she wants to go and carry her stuff. :)

I'm pretty motivated now since the flying club's 172s are both booked when I need them for a family trip to Michigan. I wonder if I can fit my wife and two small dogs in the club Citabria?
Hopefully I can provide an update on my LEE fitment soon!

[MN_flyer1]

59pacer, I'm definitely interested in your results. I tested my CO levels last night (old stock system) and they are just below 50ppm but spike considerably more in slow flight.
Therefore, I'm strongly considering a new exhaust system, but also wondering about exhaust blowing up under the fuselage.
It does not quite make sense that I have these rather large openings around the bungees in the exhaust's air stream either....


I suspect the same thing on mine. I am missing the small shroud that attaches to the gear to cover the bunge hole. Anyone have ideas on how to seal this area up?

Tim

[Gilbert Pierce]

A number of us have been successful in significantly reducing the CO levels by simply using a longer exhaust pipe from the muffler.

[Gilbert Pierce]

A number of us have been successful in significantly reducing the CO levels by simply using a longer exhaust pipe from the muffler. My CO level never exceeds about 5ppm on a digital indicator.

[JoeB]

A number of us have been successful in significantly reducing the CO levels by simply using a longer exhaust pipe from the muffler. My CO level never exceeds about 5ppm on a digital indicator.

I could look at that airplane all day...great photo

[59pacer]

I've made up a longer pipe to run a series of tests with-- gradually reducing it and measuring CO levels in different phases of flight. I'll post my conclusions as soon as I can get it done.

[59pacer]

I tried slow climbs, cruising and powered descents with all the cabin vents closed. As the exhaust pipe got within 1" of the stock length pipe, the CO level started to rise, until at the stock length the CO was approaching the limit allowed here--50 ppm. I've settled on a 1.75" increase in the pipe length (equates to 16" from locating hole to the end) which gives about 35ppm in climb (worst case), 20-25ppm in cruise and descent--well within limits.
No doubt that would be affected by how 'tight' the underside is/door sealing etc. With some ventilation, the level drops noticeably, so I didn't bother recording those numbers, but 15-20 was common.
My meter was a brand new digital type.
Now I can get back to fixing the timing chain on my truck!

[Terry E]

What was there 12 guys buying this exhaust? I would really like to know if you see any difference in your proformance and do ya think its worth the money?

[Steve Pierce]

Some of my personal opinions on exhausts towards the bottom of this page.
http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?42511-Just-ordered-my-new-sutton-exhaust&highlight=exhaust

[Tadpole]

Some of my personal opinions on exhausts towards the bottom of this page.
http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?42511-Just-ordered-my-new-sutton-exhaust&highlight=exhaust

Cut straight to the good post with this link.... http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?42511-Just-ordered-my-new-sutton-exhaust&p=533719&viewfull=1#post533719

Nice comments Steve

[skywaggin]

That thread convinced me of the Sutton. Can we get this approved on a Pacer?
I like that it allows some space (and money) to do some other mods like maybe a firewall battery, baffle oil cooler, etc.

[Stephen]

My original exhaust system caused by digital CO indicator to sound off it's alarm often on landing. As Gilbert says, I too extended the tail pipe to solve the problem. Now, that I have the Sutton, which comes with a long tail pipe (some what...masculine or obsicene, depending on. ...) I have been trimming it (ouch) to length and still maintain low CO.

[Steve Pierce]

That thread convinced me of the Sutton. Can we get this approved on a Pacer?
I like that it allows some space (and money) to do some other mods like maybe a firewall battery, baffle oil cooler, etc.

It has been field approved many times. If we can get enough people I think we can get Brian Sutton to STC it. The only thing that will need to be done is a noise test.

[Pacer9]

It has been field approved many times. If we can get enough people I think we can get Brian Sutton to STC it. The only thing that will need to be done is a noise test.

An STC'd Sutton exhaust for my Pa22/20-150. I want one.

Michel

[skywaggin]

I will commit to it for Brian right now at his current advertised price.
However, I'm afraid the STC process will take longer than I want to wait (~2-3 months).
Looks like he already includes an STC for the baffle oil cooler and air scoop heater hose? Will this work with the Pacer?
From what I understand the exhaust system needs the baffle cooler and a modern lightweight type starter?

[Steve Pierce]

From what I understand the exhaust system needs the baffle cooler and a modern lightweight type starter?
That is correct. Several Pacers are using Brian Sutton's exhaust system via Field Approval.

[dplunkt]

OK, has anyone from the group buy installed their LEE and what are your performance results???

[Pacerfgoe]

Well... I'm finally getting around to installing my system. Been fighting with it really. I made the mistake of snugging up the pipes too tight at first, and nothing would fit at all. Then I took it all off, Removed an oil cooler line that was in the way.... more of a nuisance than anything, and put the whole thing together loosely. It all went together fairly well....just doing some jiggling back and forth and it was on. It fit quite nicely.
Then i went to slip on the tailpipe.....Not a chance in HE double toothpicks....It seems that the stub coming out of the muffler is at the wrong angle and interferes with the right lower tube that goes to the cluster in the centre. I'm going to have to cut and weld to make it work....not too happy about that. I'm going to say before you ask that all new engine mounts have just been installed to the correct 1.84" or close to that setting.

Anyone else having this very same problem, and what solution did you come up with?

[Yellow Baron]

Well... I'm finally getting around to installing my system. Been fighting with it really. I made the mistake of snugging up the pipes too tight at first, and nothing would fit at all. Then I took it all off, Removed an oil cooler line that was in the way.... more of a nuisance than anything, and put the whole thing together loosely. It all went together fairly well....just doing some jiggling back and forth and it was on. It fit quite nicely.
Then i went to slip on the tailpipe.....Not a chance in HE double toothpicks....It seems that the stub coming out of the muffler is at the wrong angle and interferes with the right lower tube that goes to the cluster in the centre. I'm going to have to cut and weld to make it work....not too happy about that. I'm going to say before you ask that all new engine mounts have just been installed to the correct 1.84" or close to that setting.

Anyone else having this very same problem, and what solution did you come up with?

Mine fitted right in - got a Pacer (converted Tripacer) with dynafocal mount for the Univair 180 HP conversion. The only tightness was front fight corner where the pipe was touching the cowl latch.
Been happily flying close on a year now.

[Steve Pierce]

Anyone else have a clearance problem with the standard factory conical mount?

[Pacerfgoe]

It's funny you ask that question Steve, I was thinking the same thing last night. After reading many posts it seems the conical mount is giving more troubles than the dynafocal one.

[59pacer]

It took me (no help) 3 attempts and all day to get it fitted. I had to loosely assemble it on the engine, but have the tailpipe fitted tight (no side brace). I looped a rope around the tailpipe so I could twist it a bit to keep forward pressure on it while taking up the exhaust nuts. It was also necessary to make sure that the exhaust pipes themselves were all pushed towards the centerline of the engine during the tightening process to get sufficient engagement in the muffler. After the nuts were taken up, clamps tightened, the rope came off and it fitted--just. There is about 3/8" clearance between muffler and engine mount, and a bit more for the tailpipe. After about 50 hours, there is no rubbing anywhere that I can detect. It's a bit louder, throatier, and there is a bit more power. The carbon monoxide level in the cabin doubled to unsafe levels, and lengthening the tailpipe about 1.5" fixed that.

[59pacer]

Conical mount with 'new rubber'.

[Terry E]

As it appears many folks bought new exhaust this year. A friend of mine needs a stock muffler and if your pipes are good he could use them too. plz call me or email or pm or what ever. I have never seen a muffler go this bad its a good thing he did not use his cabin heat.

Thanks in advance.
Terry 253 350 2893
tgendsley@gmail.com

[danP]

OK, I just got my plane back from having the annual done andhaving the new exhaust put on. Differentthan I expected; it’s like flying someone else’s plane. I flew 10 minutes backfrom the AP’s and then flew today for 30 minutes.
4705
Here are my impressions (before the measured results). Definitelymore throaty sound, very noticeable right off. The weird thing is I expected anadded 100 rpm’s or so, didn’t happen but what did happen is that everything Iused to do at one rpm setting I now have to lower it 100 or so, when I’min the pattern for example. I have to relearn this plane’s characteristics.
Takeoff roll, this is just gut, but I feel I’m off in about100 to 200 feet shorter. Now I don’t think that’s wishful thinking because at80 to 85 mph my rate of climb was indicated at 200+ more fpm than usual.
OK, I checked speed WOT at 2,000 ft MSL about 6 differenttimes to get an average before the exhaust. I averaged about 107 knots(measured with Bendex klx135 navcom GPS, verified with indicated). Then I did the same test for thefirst time today, 111knots, gain of 4+. As I learn how to trim this out I am sure I'll get another knot or two. I plan to check fuel comsumption too. I think this thing performs as advertised. I hope this uploads but the results of all are below. New exhaust numbers shadded green, old in blue.

4706

[danP]

Hi folks,

I don't want to start a new thread...I'm very happy with the LEE but Im confused (not unusual for me). I don't see any change in static or WOT RPM's from the stock system but all the flight characteristics are as expected, faster, more fuel efficient, etc. Should I see an increase in RPM?

thanks
Dan

[Pacerfgoe]

Dan...are you saying that it's faster at the same engine RPM....how can that be?? Maybe your tach has been tweaked in the annual it just had?

[danP]

Hi Pacerfgoe,

Yea, I'm thinking I have a tach problem because I've flown the new rig for about 4 hours now and repeatedly tested that speed with my GPS and I'm consistently 4-5 knots faster top end than before the LEE install. So I'm thinking I need to check the tach because this does not make sense.

Dan

[Pacerfgoe]

be sure to let us know what you found....

[Steve Pierce]

Several Super Cubs that were based at high altitude airports saw no rpm increase after installing the Leading Edge Exhaust.

[danP]

Hi Steve,

That's interesting, did they see an increase in speed. My home airport is at 433 MSL and I've been flying at 2,000 for my tests. I gained a solid 4 knots if not 5. As Pacerfgoe noted above, how do you get more speed without higher RPM?


Dan

[Pacerfgoe]

how do you get more speed without higher RPM?


Dan

Drag Reduction.....OK Dan, spill the beans... what else did you do??

[Steve Pierce]

No, they did some pull tests and saw no increase. They didn't feel like it was worth the extra weight and cost and removed and sold it.

[Pacerfgoe]

It's been a while since the group buy started, and I'm wondering who has one installed and what do you think. I'm looking for anything good or bad. If you could come up with any performance changes (good or bad) that is welcome as well. How about the noise....more/less....any info is welcome.








Steve if you could let this run awhile on it's own before merging it with other threads i'd appreciate it.....

[mmoyle]

I'm really interested in the leading edge exhaust....especially if a group buy. I may send my exhaust in to get straightened.....after I call and ask how it's done.
Mark Moyle
Platinum Ak. 432 miles from where leading edge exhaust is made!


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[danP]

Hi guys,

I installed mine about a year ago. Prior to the install I recorded my top speed (tripacer) from a half dozen flight tests at 123 mph. After i installed the leading edge exhaust my top speed is consistently 128 once in a while 130. The oil temp went up about ten degrees. When I asked my AP about it he said "more power, more heat" don't worry about it. So at 32 degrees out I run an oil temp of 180 in the summer it gets to 200-205. Can't tell you if I got better fuel economy but i suppose so. It did give me some more rpms.

It is louder, although not much and the sound is lower, throatier if thats a word. Bottom line is I like it since I can't get a sutton.

Dan

[Pacer 24C]

I like my Sutton from a design and maintenance perspective - but you don't get the extra power you get from the LE exhaust.

[Stephen]

A local SC pilot and A&P installed the LE exhaust, said he saw no difference in performance. What is the weight difference?

[Steve Pierce]

I like my Sutton from a design and maintenance perspective - but you don't get the extra power you get from the LE exhaust.

I have gotten an increase in static with all the Sutton exhaust systems I have installed on Super Cubs.

Stephen the Leading Edge exhaust is heavier.

[jmgross]

I had mine installed last year, ended up having to remove it due to some EGT issues. Cyl's 1 and 2 remained normal, 3 and 4 EGT went up by approx. 250-300 degrees. Checked the probe positions to make all were in correct locations, went through the induction system and repaired any leaks that were found but nothing brought time temps closer together.

The EGT's were close at full power, It was only after a power reduction that there were issues. And, after any leaning it got much worse.

I really just run out of time to trouble shoot it.

On the positive side, it give me a coupe hundred RPM increase and I liked the sound. And I had all of my intake leaks repaired....

[mmoyle]

What did you do with the exhaust system after removing it?
Mark M.


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[jmgross]

I still have it, it's back in the box. When I have more time I will try it again.

[jmgross]

I think that I am going to sell my Leading Edge Exhaust, if anyone is interested you can email me at grossjo61@comcast.net.

Joe

[Twofieros]

Is this because of your CHT? Did you ever get the issue resolved? Mine still sits in a box as my restoration has slowed down. Kids.

[jmgross]

No, I got a great offer on the Pacer and let it go. Now I'm looking for something else and I don't know what it will be...

[Throttle Pusher]

180 HP Pacer?

[jmgross]

No, it's a 150HP

[Gilbert Pierce]

I had mine installed last year, ended up having to remove it due to some EGT issues. Cyl's 1 and 2 remained normal, 3 and 4 EGT went up by approx. 250-300 degrees. Checked the probe positions to make all were in correct locations, went through the induction system and repaired any leaks that were found but nothing brought time temps closer together.

The EGT's were close at full power, It was only after a power reduction that there were issues. And, after any leaning it got much worse.

I really just run out of time to trouble shoot it. They only yield information for leaning in my opinion.

On the positive side, it give me a coupe hundred RPM increase and I liked the sound. And I had all of my intake leaks repaired....




Your EGT at full power or wide open throttle being mostly even is because the throttle plate is full open. There is minimal turbulence in the induction system. At part throttle the throttle plate is an obstruction in the induction system causing uneven mixture distribution.

As long as the CHT's are good don't worry about the EGT. In my opinion the EGT is usefull for leaning or if all of a sudden you see an unexplained change in one. I run my EI-EGT in the normalized mode, then an unusual reading will show up. Otherwise I don't worry about it.

[RickF]

As long as the CHT's are good don't worry about the EGT. In my opinion the EGT is usefull for leaning or if all of a sudden you see an unexplained change in one. I run my EI-EGT in the normalized mode, then an usual reading will show up. Otherwise I don't worry about it.

True, Mike Busch wrote an article about the EGT myth in his Savvy Aviator column in Oct 2010, Sport Aviation.
High CHT is where you will damage your engine.

Rick

[pa20]

No, it's a 150HP

Was your Pacer a PA-20 or a PA-22/20? I don't see an STC for the PA-20's on the L.E. site.

[mmoyle]

A new LEES system arrived few here a weeks ago. Larry...think that's his name...mailed me the stc paperwork...listing my 1950 PA 20 SN. 20-174


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[mmoyle]

Pulled the cowl, prop and nose bowl. Vacillated on.....welding the starter hole in the nose bowl shut....or work on the still loose exhaust system.....so......chose to finished up the exhaust system....tail pipe didn't clear the motor mount. Pulled the muffler today....thinking I'll change the out put angle on the exhaust stack....pulled it apart... Nah...to purdy. Made a pipe with a slot, cut down the middle, slid it into the pipe, little heat and a Mac 3/4" deep well impact socket and a three pound hammer.....bang bang. Now clears the motor mount by 1/4". Wonder if I ought to wrap the motor mount tube with some insulation wrap to protect it from the heat? http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/22/98e2d198fdedbeefac07938308dadb52.jpgprobably the fugliest thing I've done on the airplane.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/22/15e530e69f20004f78754b47c7702c9d.jpg


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[Steve Pierce]

I would be interested to know what the STC holder for this exhaust system on a Pacer has to say about this clearance issue. Did others have similar issues?

[mmoyle]

A couple guys here went so far as to have a shop change the angle of the exhaust stack.


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[Gilbert Pierce]

Gee, my Sutton bolted right up, no issues and half the price and weight.:smile:

[59pacer]

See post #166. Three years and a few hundred hours on the engine mounts later, still no sign of any rubbing anywhere. It was a battle to fit, and if it hadn't been so expensive and difficult to return from here, I most probably would have.
i considered doing a similar 'mod' but decided to persist. I think I must have used up all the available 'manufacturer's tolerances' to get it to fit well enough.
Having said that, I'm happy with it as it is--though not looking forward to ever having to remove and re-fit it!

[Pacerfgoe]

I ended up taking mine to acorn welding and had them alter the output pipe angle. I was pretty pissed that I had to do that, it seems the standard conical mount has problems, and the dynofocal mount is OK. I got no help at all from the manufacturer, so I just bit the bullet and fixed it.
So a word of warning....if you have the standard conical engine mount, the tailpipes not going to fit without modification of your (insert appropriate swear word here) $3200 exhaust system.

[Curly]

l crossed them off my list of potential exhaust systems when they started talking about short and long engine mounts. Just goes to show that the STC system has major flaws......there is no such animal for a PA22, just one size that suits all. If the manufacturer doesn't know this, there is no way I would trust their performance figures that are used to justify a $3200 price tag.

[pa20]

I think that I would be going with the Sutton if I was in need of a new system. I really wish that it was not requiring cutting a hole in the lower cowling though.

[rocket]

I spent a lot of time looking at all the exhaust options and the leading edge just didn't want to work for me. I wanted it to. I have to pull my nose wheel assembly off each spring for float ops and it looked problematic. There are other reasons...

My flying partner in crime has the LE on his 150 cub and he loves it.

For those of you with pa20 or 22/20 AC i still think the Hot Rod ( is it Charlie Center's?) muffler sold at FA Dodge is your best deal. I believe at the pa12/pa22 size, as opposed to the cub size, there might be even more gain in performance.

I know of one shoe horned into a tripacer but it took a little magic* to make it all work.


Rocket



* rocket magic!!!

[Steve Pierce]

The STC for installing the Leading Edge Exhaust is owned by someone in Utah, not the manufacturer of the exhaust. You guys that have had issues might file a malfunction and defect report with the FAA. https://www.faa.gov/forms/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/186275

The Sutton won't fit around the nose gear on the Tri-Pacer unfortunately.

Butch at Performance Aeromotive actually owns the Hot Rod muffler STC that Atlee Dodge sell and yes the PA12 muffler part number is the same as the Tri-Pacer and Pacer. I talked to Steve Kracke GM at Atlee Dodge and Jim Dyer (owner of Univair and Atlee Dodge) several years ago and they said they would have to noise test it on every engine certified in the 20 and 22. I think the are ways around that after talking to Brian Sutton. The bad thing is the FAA would not eliminate the muffler AD on the PA12 Hot Rod muffler like the did on the PA18. Silly cause the baffles which is the reason for the AD were removed. The 3" tailpipe does make it considerably louder. Tom (works for me) recently replaced his Hot Rod muffler on his PA18 with a Sutton and really likes it. CHTs went down as well as fuel flow.

[mmoyle]

I spoke with Dane.... What we discussed.....Publicly I'm not going to go there. He did say he'd change the angle of the exhaust stack. Personally I feel the cost should be bore by the STC holder not the owner of a brand new exhaust system.


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[Steve Pierce]

I agree 100%.

[Brian]

Not sure where I got the attached photo but it shows the LEEs installed in a TriPacer and how this installer modified the exhaust pipe to clear the mount.

[Yellow Baron]

Got a Leading Edge Exhaust system on a O-360 - fitted no problem - performs well.

On 80-90 degree days it gets a bit hot under the rear end of the cowl - so I lowered the main fuel line and am now considering wrapping it with copper tape or getting it ceramically coated.

Anybody tried that yet?

[mmoyle]

I installed fire sleeve from the gascolator to the carbatrator. Haven't flown it yet.

[Yellow Baron]

Before and after picture of the fuel line move


1021610218

[mmoyle]

Your fuel flow sensor is mounted above the gascolator?

[Yellow Baron]

10220

Yes, for the last 10 years it has been ... both fuel flow and pressure


10219

[mmoyle]

Ah.... Is the fire sleeved line to the carb an "after" picture? If it is...perhaps fabricating a heat shield for the fuel line will help? Or routing the fuel line down under the exhaust with the fire sleeve.....
I Installed my fuel flow sensor inside near the rudder pedal cable connection on the left side. Will be using Atlee Dodges gas caps with the tube pointed forward to help the fuel flow...doubt I need it but what duh hay.... Tried to mount the sensor to the gascolator... Didn't like it. The airequip line to the carburetor was to short...felt it would transmit engine vibration into the fuel flow sensor...


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[Yellow Baron]

Ah.... Is the fire sleeved line to the carb an "after" picture? If it is...perhaps fabricating a heat shield for the fuel line will help? Or routing the fuel line down under the exhaust with the fire sleeve.....
I Installed my fuel flow sensor inside near the rudder pedal cable connection on the left side. Will be using Atlee Dodges gas caps with the tube pointed forward to help the fuel flow...doubt I need it but what duh hay.... Tried to mount the sensor to the gascolator... Didn't like it. The airequip line to the carburetor was to short...felt it would transmit engine vibration into the fuel flow sensor...


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Mine (fuel flow and fuel pressure) have been on the bottom of the firewall for almost 15 years now ... Airequiplines between all components (and ALL fuel lines are fire sleeved), got the aux pump from the UNIVAIR 180 HP conversion which added some complexity and the Attlee Dodge bent caps and 61 gal tanks - all of which are working swimmingly.

only when I fitted the leading edge free flow exhaust did I need to put a little heat shield and lower the main fuel line hole through the firewall...

[mmoyle]

Mine (fuel flow and fuel pressure) have been on the bottom of the firewall for almost 15 years now ... Airequiplines between all components (and ALL fuel lines are fire sleeved), got the aux pump from the UNIVAIR 180 HP conversion which added some complexity and the Attlee Dodge bent caps and 61 gal tanks - all of which are working swimmingly.

only when I fitted the leading edge free flow exhaust did I need to put a little heat shield and lower the main fuel line hole through the firewall...

Ah...got it.


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[rmwalkersr]

It looks as though both Leading Edge ($4,400) and Sutton ($2,050) only provide exhaust systems for a traditional landing gear PA-22/20, and not the tricycle gear version. However, a friend/A&P swears that a nearby PA-22-150 has the Leading Edge exhaust installed with a nose wheel.

Other than spending $4,400 or ordering all of the stock components, are there any other options out there? :new_Eyecrazy:

[Steve Pierce]

Some pictures here of the Leading Edge Exhaust on a Tri-Pacer:
http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/showthread.php?6009-Leading-Edge-Exhaust

[Gilbert Pierce]

Those pictures really make me appreciate the simplicity of the Sutton exhaust.

[rmwalkersr]

Has anyone attempted to fit the Sutton exhaust to a tricycle gear bird?

[piperrocks2013]

Has anyone attempted to fit the Sutton exhaust to a tricycle gear bird?

Looking at the drawings of the Sutton damn near impossible

[Stephen]

Those pictures really make me appreciate the simplicity of the Sutton exhaust.

And, weight savings!

[piperrocks2013]

And, weight savings!
I got to laugh about the weight savings . When these planes were built in the 50s they had old tube radios that weighed more then a newborn and never mind the 20 pound ADF antenna lol. If you're really that concerned about weight go see your doctor or don't eat fatty foods before you go fly. :wave2:

[Steve Pierce]

I got to laugh about the weight savings . When these planes were built in the 50s they had old tube radios that weighed more then a newborn and never mind the 20 pound ADF antenna lol. If you're really that concerned about weight go see your doctor or don't eat fatty foods before you go fly. :wave2:
You haven't met Stephen. ;)

[Steve Pierce]

Has anyone attempted to fit the Sutton exhaust to a tricycle gear bird?

Impossible, nose fork and steering is right where the muffler site.

[Gilbert Pierce]

You haven't met Stephen. ;)
When Stephen turns sideways you can't see him.

[walt.buskey]

Hey, Dad, I've been told that too… walk through a shower & not get wet…. :)

[rmwalkersr]

I spoke with Dane Wagner of Leading Edge, and he confirmed that their exhaust system can be used with either the PA-22 or the PA-22/20. He had me call the STC owner for details. I then spoke with Wayne Law of KW Aviation in Ogden, UT at 801.920.4518 who described what had to be done to fit the Leading Edge exhaust system to a tricycle gear bird. Wayne sells the exhaust system and STC for $4,395 + shipping. The system is shipped from Leading Edge in Anchorage, Alaska. They adjust the order to bend around the bell crank before shipping, then the installer must bend the steering rod to clear the pipe. It apparently isn't too much different from the traditional gear installation. As these are made to order, plan on at least eight weeks before it is shipped. I'll be saving up to replace this next September, so I'll track N3407Z's performance for one year with the old exhaust, then with the Leading Edge exhaust, and post the differences here. Thank you all for the comments!

[Stephen]

I got to laugh about the weight savings . When these planes were built in the 50s they had old tube radios that weighed more then a newborn and never mind the 20 pound ADF antenna lol. If you're really that concerned about weight go see your doctor or don't eat fatty foods before you go fly. :wave2:

Cutting weight to improve performance is always best to start with the pilot, I wish Gilbert was correct about my weight. It is somewhat self defeating when end up encreasing weight when trying to up hp.

[skarngeo]

Did you have any problem with the exhaust interfering with the engine mount? Ours doesn't seem to fit (see photo below).... will probably have to have LEE modify the one they sent??
12898

[59pacer]

Did you have any problem with the exhaust interfering with the engine mount? Ours doesn't seem to fit (see photo below).... will probably have to have LEE modify the one they sent??
12898
It took me three attempts to get mine to fit (PA22/20), and even then the clearance from the mount is barely 3/8" (which has proved sufficient in practice).
The lengths of the tailpipes are barely enough to get the muffler clamps on, so there's almost no 'adjustment' available at that end.
On the third attempt, I hung it all together with loose cylinder stud nuts and clamps and used ropes and levers to take all the tolerances out of it before tightening everything up. I was working by myself, which didn't help.
It hasn't been a problem since, but I'd hate to have to take it off and re-install it for any reason.
I recall I had carbon high monoxide levels in the cabin and had to experiment with the tailpipe length to get the CO down to safe levels.
At the time, the only thing that stopped me from boxing it up and sending it back for a refund was the prohibitive freight cost--- and that I'd be left with the original.
Performance wise, it's fine. The shiny polished stainless finish quickly disappears!

[Pacerfgoe]

Did you have any problem with the exhaust interfering with the engine mount? Ours doesn't seem to fit (see photo below).... will probably have to have LEE modify the one they sent??
12898

Welcome to the leading edge club.....My exhaust was exactly as yours is, the rear edge of the overboard pipe about 3/4 the way through the engine mount pipe. The word I got from the STC holder and from the manufacturer was to pull the exhaust pipe forward with a rope and then tighten all the fasteners. All that's going to do is create a bunch of cracks.
I ended up cutting the stub and redirecting the stub forward so it would clear the engine mount without any strain on any of the parts then tighten the bolts. Not the thing I wanted to do, but did it anyhow.
Now after all the installation headaches have gone, I really like this exhaust system, it's really well made with thicker tubing and muffler components, gets rid of the 50 & 100hr muffler inspection requirements (not the annual inspection requirement,) and ya sure it's 3 1/2 lbs heaver than the stock system, but also built much better in my opinion.
I do have a noticable power improvement....no numbers to back that up, just what I notice on the old butt'ometer.

If LEES will adjust the angle of the outlet stubb, I recommend just have them do it and move on.

Here is a pic of mine prior to fixing it....
12915

[Stephen]

What changes in performance did you find after installing this exhaust?

[59pacer]

What changes in performance did you find after installing this exhaust?
No numbers, but my backside said a few knots more in cruise, maybe slightly faster off the ground. Sounds more powerful, though, which is very important!

[Yellow Baron]

I operate a o-360 powered N-reg Pacer in Africa (N3043Z) and had the leading edge exhaust on it for a few years now. Done about 200 hours on it.

Installation was easy. Performance is noticeable.
However recently the #4 pipe twisted itself out of the muffler, literally it left the clamp on the muffler and slipped out. All the exhaust air was blowing into the cowl and onto the main fuel line.
Now that pipe is rubbing on the #2 pipe and its almost impossible to force it back to where it should have stayed.

Anybody with any suggestions?

Dane Wagner Sr from leading edge who was always quick with a reply unfortunately died. - I can't get hold of Wayne Law the STC holder.

[Pacerfgoe]

I operate a o-360 powered N-reg Pacer in Africa (N3043Z) and had the leading edge exhaust on it for a few years now. Done about 200 hours on it.

Installation was easy. Performance is noticeable.
However recently the #4 pipe twisted itself out of the muffler, literally it left the clamp on the muffler and slipped out. All the exhaust air was blowing into the cowl and onto the main fuel line.
Now that pipe is rubbing on the #2 pipe and its almost impossible to force it back to where it should have stayed.

Anybody with any suggestions?

Dane Wagner Sr from leading edge who was always quick with a reply unfortunately died. - I can't get hold of Wayne Law the STC holder.

You might have to loosen all the clamps for the individual pipes to allow some movement to get #4 back in position.
Sorry to hear about Dane,... RIP

[Curly]

With all the problems mentioned here, I am pleased I decided on the Sutton exhaust. Don't really care for the pipe sticking out of the bottom of the cowl, but at least it fits!

[mmoyle]

Dane was trying to sell his business....wonder if it was sold or if it’s in estate limbo?


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[Stephen]

With all the problems mentioned here, I am pleased I decided on the Sutton exhaust. Don't really care for the pipe sticking out of the bottom of the cowl, but at least it fits!

Yes, and it sounds more powerful....too. Plus it's light.

[Gilbert Pierce]

My Sutton exhaust opened up the engine compartment making the rear of the accessory case and mags easy to get to. Less firewall heat and as Stephan said less weight.
Gilbert simpler is better Pierce

[Yellow Baron]

You might have to loosen all the clamps for the individual pipes to allow some movement to get #4 back in position.
Sorry to hear about Dane,... RIP

Done -

However the clamps are now maxed out in terms of the thread left to tighten them - also 2 hours of Flying later now the #3 clamp is loose when hot ... firewall temps going up to 85 Celsius from the leaking gas (normal is around 57)

any ideas where to get good replacement clamps and the max torque limit one can tighten them to?

[Pacerfgoe]

Can't seem to edit my previous post, so I'll just add a picture I finally found in my file for Carb Pics....wonder how it got there????

Anyhow here is a pic of my redirected exhaust stub. The green arrow is the original stack out of the muffler, and the red arrow is where I took out a 1/4" tapering to 0" wedge. And then the next pic is the finished pipe mounted showing the clearance.
12947

12948

[Pacerfgoe]

Done -

However the clamps are now maxed out in terms of the thread left to tighten them - also 2 hours of Flying later now the #3 clamp is loose when hot ... firewall temps going up to 85 Celsius from the leaking gas (normal is around 57)

any ideas where to get good replacement clamps and the max torque limit one can tighten them to?

How about putting a few washers under the nut to allow a little more tightening, or another idea is to cut a stainless shim long enough to wrap around the pipe and then put the clamp over that....until you get a proper clamp that will work.
Have you tried calling LEES to get a clamp?

[Yellow Baron]

How about putting a few washers under the nut to allow a little more tightening, or another idea is to cut a stainless shim long enough to wrap around the pipe and then put the clamp over that....until you get a proper clamp that will work.
Have you tried calling LEES to get a clamp?

AutoReply from performance@wemakeyoufly.com

This is to let you know that Dane Wagner Sr., owner of Leading Edge Exhaust Systems, has passed away. As such, all LEES business is on hold pending probate. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

- Dane at LEES was always my first port of call but this the reply I am getting since 24th Jan.

[Steve Pierce]

Can you post a picture of the clamp?

[Yellow Baron]

Can you post a picture of the clamp?

Here the clamp pic from the first day - 200 hours ago - it is now maxed out (i.e. the two round parts in the back are touching and there is no more thread left ... a washer won't do anything but I need to get a more recent pic taken.

I just think I need newer better fitting clamps , less prone to expansion during heat up ...

12949

I checked on their website Leading Edge used to supply different looking ones:

12950


Below a link to all my pics from the install on page 11/12 of this thread ...


(https://picasaweb.google.com/112324868625407088398/ExhaustInst2?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJbYgeey7JrvPQ&feat=directlink)https://picasaweb.google.com/112324868625407088398/ExhaustInst2?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJbYgeey7Jrv PQ&feat=directlink

[Steve Pierce]

I checked on their website Leading Edge used to supply different looking ones:

12950




This looks like a standard Piper clamp from Univair or Dawley. I take it there is no tit for alignment?

[mmoyle]

Wonder if adding a stainless back strap to each fancy clamp would be worthwhile before adding heat to my new LEE system?


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[Yellow Baron]

This looks like a standard Piper clamp from Univair or Dawley. I take it there is no tit for alignment?

They are pretty much automotive style clamps and nothing is specified in the STC documentation about them other than the size. Not even a torque setting.

[cozzmo81]

It looks like your clamps are similar to the 94106 series stainless steel T-Bolt clamps from Clampco. They list a maximum torque on the clamp bolt of 75 in-lb Dry on their web site linked below.
http://www.clampco.com/products/t-bolt-std.asp

The clamps are available from several sources online if you need to buy a smaller clamp so its not bottomed out. One of the sources I found online is linked below. I don't have any affiliation with either of these places just found them on a google search.

http://www.trucknbusclamps.com/category-s/135.htm