Crossing the Rockies

[joewcasey]

I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with a 135hp PA22 in the MT/ID Rocky Mountains. I'm thinking (albeit with little success) of flying from Grand Forks, ND to Portland, OR this winter with an approximate route of Great Falls, Missoula, Lewiston, ID area, then on to a satellite of PDX. I know I'm very limited with respect to performance and can't handle the 9-10k feet that I'd need to clear the tops of the granite, but I was wondering if anyone out there is more familiar with fairly safe routes that thread their way through the area around Helena/Missoula and west.. It's just so frustrating to be looking at a really cool trip and basically having a 150 mile stretch stopping me. Oh, and just to put it out there, I grew up flying in Wyoming/Montana, just don't have that much experience around Missoula and west and when I was out there it was flying anything from a 160hp Super Cub, Cherokee or a Chieftain... something with a little more margin of safety than this little PA22-135 can provide. :D

[Grantmac]

I cleared +9000ft granite in my 125HP Clipper maybe 100lbs under gross during the middle of the summer when they were calling 10,000ft DAs at 7000. I don't think you should have any problem.
Plan ahead and give yourself lots of time to climb.

I would be more concerned with the weather conditions that time of year. The potential for lots of IFR exists as you get near the coast.

-Grant

[nd_rice]

I would think you should be able to make it. I just flew from CKN - Boise in my PA22-150 and had no problem. Before I went I loaded the plane up and flew from GFK to CKN climbing ~80mph. I do not remember my exact elevation but by the time I got to CKN I was around 12K. That gave me a vague idea of my time needed to climb minus the actual mountain conditions. I would think you should be able to climb to 10K and cruise over top in the early morning no problem(weather permitting). When I departed Bozeman and headed Northeast to Glasgow I was cruising at 11.5K. I had full fuel, 2 people (400lbs) and 60lbs of baggage. I wasn't at gross, but I was close.

[Throttle Pusher]

I've been over 10k several times with my PA-22 135 and in the summer months. It just took awhile.I think you should be able to get to 12k if needed, specaily this time of the year. Before you go load up the plane with the amount of weight you think youll be taking and see what your airplane will do. only take a couple of hours to find out,and it should give you some peace of mind knowing before the trip.

[Troy Hamon]

When we bought the PA-22-135, it was in Texas. My brother brought it to Ohio, then I flew down and we brought it together to Alaska. We went the long way through Washington State to visit family, so we actually did pretty much what you are looking at doing. Landing at KBYG was an education, as the airplane didn't take off very well at that altitude (compounded by the fact we took off on the slightly uphill runway...pay extra attention to runway slope at altitude...). So we opted not to stop in Bozeman, as that is a similarly high airport, so we stopped in Billings, then Helena, Missoula, and Coeur D'Alene.

We were near gross, used quite a bit of runway, and climbed at 90 or 100 mph indicated. Most legs involved careful attention to climbing early after takeoff due to the prevailing west winds, which yielded persistent downdrafts when approaching the summits of passes. The leg from Helena to Missoula had the most critical climb of the trip. We headed back toward Canyon Ferry Lake to take advantage of space and updrafts to get up to 9000 feet, then headed off to Missoula. We stuck to the roadways the entire way, didn't try to go across the peaks at all, and it was a great trip. I'd like to do it again...if I was closer by I'd be trying to talk you into letting me fly along. It's a great trip.

There was a great trip log a couple weeks back of a guy that flew from up your way to Boise and back...

http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/showthread.php?6189-Going-to-Boise-this-weekend!

[joewcasey]

Thanks for all the input guys. After I posted this I was actually talking to the wife about loading up the airplane and seeing exactly what it would do. For now it looks like my biggest concern for the trip would be winter weather socking us in somewhere halfway for 2 weeks and being forced to fork out for a hotel room with my gas money.

Troy - Funny you mention BYG... that's where I grew up! I've had the Tripe there many times, BIL once, but was always leary about going further west. After a great deal of planning last night I was able to map out following the roadways and using the passes through the same area you did. It's also funny that you were so specific about Helena... I flew Beech 99s for Ameriflight out of there for a year, so I'm very familiar with what you were talking about. Funny how small a community aviation is. :D

ND Rice - I've had mine up to about 12k in the winter up here, did it out of a whim the first winter I had it, but was light on gas when I did it and it was just me. I do remember it took a helluva long time to get back down trying to avoid any shock cooling. That's pretty good getting that high just going to CKN... I guarantee mine wouldn't do that! Oh for a 320!

[Troy Hamon]

Ha, didn't even read the thread well enough to notice that one of the replies was from nd_rice... His climb performance with the 150 was impressive compared to my experience, but I rarely even plan to climb above 3000. I'm usually limited by ceilings around here, especially for getting through the passes, so climbing up there would result in descending back down to duck underneath...so I just tend to stay down. Some time I'll get a nice day and try to get high enough to go straight over the top though.

[nd_rice]

I am trying to take a still picture from a video and this is the best I can do for now. Watch out for them towers in the mountains!



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[MN_flyer1]

I had my PA22/20 at 9500 last weekend to catch a tailwind from SD. Was able to climb from 2500 to 9500 in about 15 minutes. I was about 350lb under gross wt with full fuel. It was still climbing around 200 fpm at that altitude. I don't have droop tips or VG's which may help the ceiling some if you have them.

[Keith]

Joe,

A number of years ago, I attended the convention at KVUO in Vancover from Green Bay. My plane is a PA22-150 but you should not have problems if you pay attention to density altitude and watch the weather. As I recall my route of flight through the Rockies was essentially following I90 (?) which took me via Billings, MT to Deer Lodge to Missoula and then over to Spokane WA and then a little south after we got through the mountains. You will have a nice wide emergency landing strip should you have problems and I don't recall that we ever got above 10,000 feet. We did "cut the pie" a little and went over the mountains when we got out of Missoula as the weather was great. We did not go up to Spokane via the interstate. Coming back, I believe we stopped at Spokane and Butte MT. It was very hot in Butte so we had to circle to clear a pass to the east but once over that, no problems on into Billings again.

I can look at my exact route if you would like as I may have remembered things wrong but it was a great flight.

Keith Klos
N8530D based at 36WI