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bigjohnnie
11-13-2011, 11:06 AM
My buddy asked me the other day what the demonstrated crosswind component of my Tripe was. Embarassingly, I didn't know. I am curious as to what it's limiting factor is - ailerons or rudder. ( I know what MY limit is, so I am sure it's far less than the test pilot's was. ) She seems to have a very powerful rudder, so I am guessing its the ailerons ( roll authority ). There were a few times that it seemed I had the yoke almost at lock, upwind wing down into the wind. After watching the "Flying Wild Alaska" series and the crosswinds they deal with, I am even more curious about it. Anybody know the "official" numbers?
Johnnie

RLMessenger
11-13-2011, 12:05 PM
the handbook says 15 knots, but I know for a fact that you can get down in 25knots plus. it aint purty, but sometimes you gotta do it cause that is all there is.

Troy Hamon
11-13-2011, 01:50 PM
I landed last spring with 15G25 at a 70 degree angle to the runway, and it was a good landing. Not sure I had a lot of rudder left, but I would not hesitate to land with that x-wind again. I asked a long-time PA-22 pilot what his limits were, he said 25G30 direct crosswind for him. He considers it a pretty good wind airplane, for what that is worth. I flew an approach at an airport with 20G30 direct crosswind last year and elected not to land, just couldn't get things stabilized, but probably more from turbulence than from the wind value, so that may not really refute his point.

I'm more interested in the gut feeling of whether this is a good idea, do I have a backup plan, and where am I going if these conditions don't let me make a landing approach I am willing to set down from? The book numbers don't help you know these things. But they do help you know what somebody else has managed with the same airframe.

rocket
11-13-2011, 04:36 PM
I think the real limiting factor might be the wing tip. I have the booster tips so they hang down a bit.More seriously one needs to add the gust factor and then plant her power on. The lower your
speed the less effective your controls. I like to have a nice stabilized aproch with bank, not crab, and if I do it real nice, like one must on the black sticky stuff, my up wind main touches first, then my nose wheel then my other main. Id you get trapped in say thirty plus it is time to seriously think about landing on a taxi way or anything else pointed into the wind. Do not be afraid toTELL THE TOWER what you are doing not ask. If you are out in these winds you had better know how short you can land and stop.If one reads all the pa22 NTSB reports the largest group by far is flipping over trying to turn around once on the ground. Landing that cross wind is really not your biggest concern but getting to a tie down.In reference to Troys gut feeling: one must beware of becoming too focused in an unsafe or less safe option when perhaps one circle around the pattern to take a deep breath will open your eyes to other possibilities.The tripacers short coupled controls really are an asset compared with any of pipers other fabric covered aircraft and of course the other spam cans when it comes to wind and turbulence.Remember, keep your speed up and your options open!Rocket

Troy Hamon
11-13-2011, 04:45 PM
Taxi limitations is a great point. I taxied in last year with a pretty full load in 20G33 (it was straight down the runway) and I wouldn't let anybody get out until we had the airplane tied down...and I was really cognizant of control inputs during taxi. No desire to taxi in higher winds, and won't even do those with a lighter load.

I'm also a slip not crab sort of guy.

Curly
11-13-2011, 06:15 PM
"flipping over trying to turn around once on the ground."

The Tripacer's high stance, slab sides and narrow undercart means you have to be very very careful when taxying in a strong crosswind. A 30 knot gust at 90degrees will put you on your your back - and from personal experience I can tell you it is not a pleasant feeling! :oops:

If you must taxi in strong winds, use a couple of wing walkers.

bigjohnnie
11-13-2011, 06:26 PM
I am also a slip kind of pilot. I like relatively long and stable approach with crosswinds. For me, I can tell if I have enough control authority to keep everything lined up and on track. I am also not afraid of going around, either. If I dont like it, and I ain't running out of fuel or on fire I am going around and trying again. Or going to my Plan "B" airport. It just seemed like I am came really close to running out of aileron a couple of times and the crosswind component was only about 15 kts or so. And rocket, my upwind wheel also touches first, followed by the nose and then -- at times it seems like along time -- the downwind wheel. If I have a lot of rudder in, I have to watch out for the swerve when the nose touches. Question : Don't cessnas have a spring nosegear steering rather than ours being direct ?

scotthayd
11-13-2011, 08:06 PM
I just flew to Alaska from California. Landed in Ft. St. John (out there on the edge of the prairie) in a 25 gusting 35 headwind. Turned onto the taxiway with a quartering tailwind and did as my instructor told me, "Dive away from the wind!"
Well even with a fully loaded plane, most of the gas in the left (upwind) tank, and a PA20 (so my tail was down) that wind kept getting under my wing and trying to turn me over! When it picked up my upwind wheel, I'd kick that rudder and let her weathervane, and when the gust died I'd bring her back around again.
I sweat more on the ground in Ft. St. John than I did in the air any time on the trip!

Steve Pierce
11-17-2011, 07:41 AM
I just flew to Alaska from California. Landed in Ft. St. John (out there on the edge of the prairie) in a 25 gusting 35 headwind. Turned onto the taxiway with a quartering tailwind and did as my instructor told me, "Dive away from the wind!"
Well even with a fully loaded plane, most of the gas in the left (upwind) tank, and a PA20 (so my tail was down) that wind kept getting under my wing and trying to turn me over! When it picked up my upwind wheel, I'd kick that rudder and let her weathervane, and when the gust died I'd bring her back around again.
I sweat more on the ground in Ft. St. John than I did in the air any time on the trip!

Got me sweating just reading your post. Would love to hear more about your trip up.

Steve Pierce
11-17-2011, 07:49 AM
Cathy landed with a 20g25 mph crosswind that was 90 degrees to the runway. I told her she had a choice of side it would be pushing us. I kept wanting to grab the controls but she did great and I kept my hands in my lap. ;)