USAF museum in Dayton

[Zac Weidner]

I am thinking about flying with a couple friends to the aviation museums in Dayton over my spring break from A&P school, which is the week of March 11th.
My first question is; how long should I plan on spending at the main USAF museum? One, two days? Also, I am planning on stopping in at the Wright Brothers' airport with museum (KMGY), then parking at I19 to get a rental car for the main museum. On the way home, I'm planning on stopping at Grimes Field (I74) and Waco Field (1WF).

Are there any other on-airport museums or areas of interest in this area that I should try to visit?

Finally, would anyone around that area be interested in meeting up one day, or perhaps flying part way together or something like that?

[Kurts]

I spent a full day there a few years back. Spent a good portion of that staring at the XB-70 Valkyrie, which in my mind is about the most beautiful thing ever created by man. Yup, I'd say a good solid day would do it.

Kurt

[Gilbert Pierce]

Been there twice. One day each time. Not enough time. See the hangar that has the restorations and the presidential airplanes that is separate from the main museum.

[Twofieros]

If you fly through CRW (charleston, WV) when I'm working and I'll give you the best service I can ATC wise.

Tim

[Bob Mac]

I would say 2 days minimum. I spent one day entirely in the restoration area which, to me, is much more interesting than looking at nice airplanes, although that was enjoyable also.This being an even numbered year the biennial Aeronca fly-in at Middletown (OH) should be held this year. Definitely worth a look if you are an old airplane enthusiast. I have been twice and enjoyed it (although I admit that I've owned 2 Aeronca's-one currently) Right down the map from Dayton.But I think it is always held in June.

[BrettL]

I recommend 2 days for the Air Force Museum. One day is long enough to see everything there if you don't really ever stop to look at details or read anything. The bus tours to the other hangar are only 1 hour long (and they make you stick to that, no catching a later bus to come back), and that's enough time to look at either the presidential aircraft, or the research and development aircraft, but not both, so you'll need to go twice if you're interested in looking at all they have in that hangar. It looks like you need to make reservations, in advance, for a tour that's only available on Fridays to visit the restoration area. Info at :http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/

There are also a number of sites relevant to the Wright Brothers to see in Dayton which you can spend a day or more exploring. There is the only extant building that housed a Wright Bicycle shop on its original foundation and in its original location. There is a replica (at a park) of the bicycle shop they occupied while doing their early aircraft work. And there is Huffman Prairie Flying Field where the brothers did much of their early flight testing and training of early pilots.

There is a WACO museum, Neil Armstrong Air and Space Museum, and more.

http://www.visitnaha.org/index.html

[rmalone]

One of the best aviation museums you will ever visit. I spent a whole day there and they had to run me off in order to lock the doors.

[Frank Green]

Check this out. It is incredible. Be sure to zoom and look up and down.

http://www.nmusafvirtualtour.com/full/tour-pkg.html

[Steve Pierce]

Zac, Hope school is going well. I just hired a fresh A&P school graduate. I have never been to the Air Force Museum but have drooled over photo galleries I found on the internet. Please give us a report and pictures of your visit.

[deandayton]

Zac,

When you stop at Grimes, there are 2 museums on the airport. One is the Grimes flying laboratory (Beech 18 with lots of lights) and other Grimes Aircraft Lighting related stuff. The other is the Champaign Aviation Museum where you can volunteer to work on their B17 restoration as well as look at other cool aircraft. Nice restaurant on field as well.

The Neil Armstrong Museum is near Wapakoneta KAXV. I've never been there but have been told it is nice.

Red Stewart Airfield 40I near Waynesville is a family operated grass strip where they still give primary instruction in Cubs and Champs. Definetly worth a stop. It's fun to just walk around an look at the planes.

If you come through on a weekend give me a shout I might be able to join you for a stop or two

Dean Dayton - N2519P PA22/20 - Marysville, OH

[Zac Weidner]

I recommend 2 days for the Air Force Museum. One day is long enough to see everything there if you don't really ever stop to look at details or read anything. The bus tours to the other hangar are only 1 hour long (and they make you stick to that, no catching a later bus to come back), and that's enough time to look at either the presidential aircraft, or the research and development aircraft, but not both, so you'll need to go twice if you're interested in looking at all they have in that hangar. It looks like you need to make reservations, in advance, for a tour that's only available on Fridays to visit the restoration area. Info at :http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/

There are also a number of sites relevant to the Wright Brothers to see in Dayton which you can spend a day or more exploring. There is the only extant building that housed a Wright Bicycle shop on its original foundation and in its original location. There is a replica (at a park) of the bicycle shop they occupied while doing their early aircraft work. And there is Huffman Prairie Flying Field where the brothers did much of their early flight testing and training of early pilots.

There is a WACO museum, Neil Armstrong Air and Space Museum, and more.

http://www.visitnaha.org/index.html

It looks like there is some kind of museum on the field at the Wright Brothers' airport, and Huffman Prairie is within walking distance.
I'm going to try to go so that I can catch the restoration area on Friday.


Zac, Hope school is going well. I just hired a fresh A&P school graduate. I have never been to the Air Force Museum but have drooled over photo galleries I found on the internet. Please give us a report and pictures of your visit.

School is okay, but not as challenging as it should be. Unfortunately, I am seeing way too many people passing that should NOT be able to pass. Not what I expected, I'm still learning some valuable stuff, just not as much as I'd like to. It seems like the instructors have all been there too long, because they aren't very good at answering off-schedule questions (ie., if they hadn't planned on talking about it, they don't like to elaborate on a question.)
I'll try to take some pictures to share.


Zac,

When you stop at Grimes, there are 2 museums on the airport. One is the Grimes flying laboratory (Beech 18 with lots of lights) and other Grimes Aircraft Lighting related stuff. The other is the Champaign Aviation Museum where you can volunteer to work on their B17 restoration as well as look at other cool aircraft. Nice restaurant on field as well.

The Neil Armstrong Museum is near Wapakoneta KAXV. I've never been there but have been told it is nice.

Red Stewart Airfield 40I near Waynesville is a family operated grass strip where they still give primary instruction in Cubs and Champs. Definetly worth a stop. It's fun to just walk around an look at the planes.

If you come through on a weekend give me a shout I might be able to join you for a stop or two

Dean Dayton - N2519P PA22/20 - Marysville, OH

Thanks for the info. I will stop by Red Stewart if it's a nice day and I have time after the Wright Brothers' museums.
I don't really see anything special at KAXV, based on their website. Is there something there worth stopping for? It's a little out of the way, but I will stop if it's worth the while.

I will let you know before I head out that way and maybe we can meet up. From what I see of the various pictures, I may have a hard time getting out of the museums. :)



Thanks for all of the tips! Sounds like I should plan on 2 days at the main museum.

[Bob Ohio]

Zac I live 60 miles East of Dayton and Urbana. The AF museum is big and at the end of 2 days you will have seen a lot of History. Urbana airport is managed by a Pa-22 owner and she is a supporter of the Short Wing Groups. She set up a tour for us last year when we had a monthly fly in at the restaurant and we spent some time with the B-17 rebuilders. They are having to rebuild and re skin some of that plane from stock metal. The WACO museum, there is another Piper owner and WACO re builder who spends a lot of time at the WACO field. If you can make it out here, week days would be the best time for Dayton (lot of kids, families, and some tours on the weekends), then hit the other 2 on the way home. Could spend the night at Urbana and then head home. Will be at Urbana for a fly on 2/14/2012 and can get you some info for you from her and info about the WACO contact if you are interested. If you come over, am 53 miles from the airport, will fly over (if the weathers good), join you on the B-17 tour and have a meal with you and your friends. I have your e-mail address.

Bob 2177A
Chillicothe, Ohio

[deandayton]

I don't really see anything special at KAXV, based on their website. Is there something there worth stopping for? It's a little out of the way, but I will stop if it's worth the while.


The museum http://www.armstrongmuseum.org is a few miles from KAXV. They usually have a crew car that can be used. It's a nice museum but given the number of stops you have planned I don't know that I would suggest going out of your way for this one.

[Zac Weidner]

Bob,
Thank you for all of the information. I didn't know if the museum would be busy in the winter or not, but I will try to avoid the weekend anyway. It wounds like Urbana will be a big enough place to plan on spending a full day at, especially with a PA-22-owning manager. The B-17 project sounds very intriguing.
Maybe we can get a few short wingers to make up a small 'gathering'. The more the merrier. Urbana might even have cheaper hotels than Dayton. It looks like I can't really avoid a rental car at Dayton, but I'd like to everywhere else if possible. I haven't asked, but I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate me landing at the old AFB next to the museum. :-)

[BrettL]

It looks like there is some kind of museum on the field at the Wright Brothers' airport, and Huffman Prairie is within walking distance.

Huffman Prairie Flying Field is a 20 mile drive from KMGY. It's near the Air Force Museum (1.5 miles). The museum at the KMGY is fairly small and won't take long to visit. http://www.wright-b-flyer.org/ The main attraction there is a flying modern Wright B Flyer look-a-like (not really a replica).

[Zac Weidner]

Looks like you are right! I guess I just assumed some part of where it was at. Hopefully the weather will cooperate so I can make the trip on enjoyable flying days.

[Steve Pierce]

School is okay, but not as challenging as it should be. Unfortunately, I am seeing way too many people passing that should NOT be able to pass. Not what I expected, I'm still learning some valuable stuff, just not as much as I'd like to. It seems like the instructors have all been there too long, because they aren't very good at answering off-schedule questions (ie., if they hadn't planned on talking about it, they don't like to elaborate on a question.)
I'll try to take some pictures to share.

Zac, I can relate. Many people in school with me that didn't care a thing about an airplane. I had one really good instructor who was a B25 crew chief in WWII. I was working for the Confederate Air Force on the weekends and had this guy for reciprocating engines. I asked lots of questions on radials. The other students got upset about it but the instructor loved it and taught me a lot. You will learn some good things in A&P school but it really just gets you your license where you really start to learn. The great thing about this profession is that you never stop learning.

[P.o.P.]

Zac

It seems "I'm late for the party" as I don't know what AMT school you are attending.

Also this could be a new thread.

Just because someone has been at their profession a long time should not be a reason to become mediocre.

You should actually develop more effective strategies with experience.

Don't be concerned over the other folks.

You should know that schools function on NUMBERS.

If those people were not there your tuition would increase or the school would disappear.


Later you will find that very few people comments on proposed AD's.

However; that amount pales when compared to the input on changes to Part 147.

Over the years there have been revisions that deleted much of the "Antique Arts" such as welding, wood, fabric & radials.

They were replaced by composites , logic circuits , UDF ( Unducted Fans) & other items.

If you review a Paert 147 curriculum you will find that there a "Skill Levels" for every task.

Level 1 is "Basic Knowledge".

Level 2 is "Limited Hands-on" .

Level 3 is "Return-to-Service" quality.

Hence a person with Level 2 "welding" skills should probably have an

experienced welder do the task & use his/her Level 3 "Inspection of Welds" skills to determine

if the task is acceptable.


There ARE times when asking an "off-topic" question is not appropriate.

My students are told from Day 1 to not ask these questions BEFORE class as I

have "paperwork" to do & copies to make.

If they feel the question is important they should have already e-mailed , texted or call me @ home.

Another option they have is to remain after class for a discussion.

Many of my students remain until lights are going out.

Some schools require the Staff to publish "Office Hours" where the Instructor is available to offer remedial asssistance.

Maybe you should inquire regarding what is the preferred method of submitting off-topic questions.


With a "Power Point" or slide presentation the Instructor is pretty much locked into a sequence of items to be covered

in a particular period.

Asking a question that gets answered 17 slides down the road doesn't work too well.

My personal style is to assemble a listing of things that should be covered at that time.

This does provide more flexibility BUT there is still some need to cover the "Intro" before going to "Advanced".


You should also be aware that Instructors, A & P, & Doctors all have varying degrees of expertise in a given area.

YOU will also be in this situation as your career develops.

No one knows EVERYTHING.

Recognizing that fact; you will find it is important to determine WHERE to turn for assistance.

This Forum for instance.

[Zac Weidner]

All very true stuff. I was just trying to say that I am disappointed with the program. Way too many areas (in my opinion) that need improvement. I agree that the instructors should be getting better, but I am just a bit disappointed in them and the program.

[JrBirdman]

Zac, your thread has split into 2. I love the AF Museum and could spend days there. But I am an AF Vet and also an airplane guy so I have to examine all the stuff on the walls and the cutaway engines etc. Be sure to check out the B-58 and the ejection capsule.

My 2 A&P instructors were great. Experts. One could make an electrical engineer out of you (or at least you thought your were after mastering Ohms Law), and the airframe instructor restored Porsche 911s so had instant cred with us. They were hands on guys. You want the airlines...here is some projects to help you get in the door. You want to build an airplane...take over this acro-duster project. You don't know s@#$ and your parents sent you here...well just hang with the program and you can get a job in many fields outside of aviation. With a solid background in all the systems, tools, hardware, inspection, fab, layout...etc. etc. you get a pretty good basic knowledge of a LOT. One dude was hired by an elevator maintenance company right out of school. In fact that was where they got all of their new hires. Poached the system. And paid the wage. No FAA jeopardy.

I had a good time in school, but it has been a few years so you know I have blocked out some of the 'other stuff' I'm sure. My partner on the O-290g OH project could smoke a cigarette, chew a plug of "Ole Brown Mule", and drink a cup of coffee all at the same time. Oh, and never shut up either.

DOM Magazine says "they" might need to sub-specialize AMT Licensing. It probably makes sense to have a Composites Repair Cert. or a PT6 cert. or a "recips" cert. I guess you could divide it up like the Medical Profession; and in a way we do it already for efficiencies sake. Pretty soon though "they" won't have too many wood, tube & fabric specialists left to certify.

Anyway FWIW, 2 years to get a sound basic working knowledge of that cross section of technical engineering will never let you down. A sound investment in your mind and hands. I know the much-used phrase about a license to learn, but it sure has helped me in life to recognize the BS'ers vs the real deal.

[Zac Weidner]

I am about to run out of options here, so I'm not sure I'm going to be able to make it next week. I found out that I absolutely cannot rent a car, since I am under 21 (they charge extra until 25), and I can't find any friends that are old enough and want to go along. The people that work at the rental facilities don't seem to have enough authority to understand that I surely ought to be able to drive a stupid car if I can fly myself in.

I'm hoping I can maybe talk one of the small airports into letting me rent their courtesy car, but I'm not sure how well that will go over.

I just thought I would inform anyone that was thinking about coming over to meet up with me.

Maybe someone has a good idea for this problem?? It looks like I'm going to have to wait at least a couple years before I can fly anywhere that I don't have family to drive me around. And by that time, fuel will be $10, and I won't be able to get there anyway. :icon_sad:

[Steve Pierce]

What day are you planning on going. I know some folks a little ways away that might can help.

[Zac Weidner]

My plans are Wednesday thru Saturday, going to the main museum on Thursday and Friday, and stopping at the other local ones on the way to and from. Of course all is weather permitting.

[deandayton]

My plans are Wednesday thru Saturday, going to the main museum on Thursday and Friday, and stopping at the other local ones on the way to and from. Of course all is weather permitting.

Zac, If you want to land at Marysville MRT I can loan you a car. It is a little over an hours drive to the USAF museum.

[Steve Pierce]

Zac, Check out this thread. http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?42304-Need-Some-Help-From-Anyone-Near-Dayton&p=530125#post530125 If you can meet up with John Graham (Patrol Guy) I can guarantee you a good time. he is one of the elite members of the Ohio Bush Pilots and those guys know how to have a good time with airplanes.


http://vimeo.com/7741168

[RanchPilot]

x2 for the Patrol Guy recommendation. After hanging out with John, you'll have a hard time making yourself leave. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to make it to Wright-Pat when I passed through, but that gives me an excuse to go back.

If you're going to be in the neighborhood, I also second the recommendation for the two museums at Grimes Field in Urbana (thanks again to Rick Papp for his hospitality). Pretty amazing to see a B-17 restoration in progress, in addition to the DC-3, the B-25, and all the other neat planes housed there.

[Zac Weidner]

I really appreciate everyone trying to help me so much. I don't think I want to sap off of someone and borrow their car. I'd love to meet up one day at maybe Grimes, though.

I found out today there is a pretty good routing of buses that go to the museum as well as most of the hotels. If I cannot rent one of the airport's courtesy cars, I will just plan on using the buses. I had not seen anything about this bus system before, but it looks like I will be able to make it work either way.

Thanks again for all your concerns! At least I know I have good connections if I ever need them. (:

[Zac Weidner]

In response to the Super Cub thread, I have talked to the guy at Moraine. He says their courtesy car has an insurance policy that says 21 or older. He seemed like a very nice guy.

[bigjohnnie]

zac, I am off that thurs and fri the 15th and 16th. My tripe is at KHAO. I can possibly ferry you around in my car if you like. PM Me if you need anything.
Johnnie

[Zac Weidner]

I sent you a PM.

[Homer Landreth]

Steve; That was awesome. That place should go onto the list of National Treasures and be preserved. Wow !

On the subject of Museums and extending it into the history of flying in Combat, the attached file is a pretty interesting summation of planes in use, how many were built, and who flew them during WWII. It brings to the forefront the obligatory recognition of Veterans and what freedoms we owe them. SALUTE !

[bigjohnnie]

Zac

I have an empty hangar at KHAO -- it's not all that far from Dayton or Grimes field -- and you are welcome to it. ( my bird is undergoing annual at KMWO ). I am free all day Thursday should you need a ride. The USAF museum is an awesome place BTW.
Johnnie

[Zac Weidner]

It looks like, as of now, the weather should be pretty nice on Wednesday, so I am going to plan on leaving really early Wednesday, and stopping at Waco Field, then Grimes Field, then end up at Moraine Airpark later in the day. I don't know what the weather holds for the weekend, so I would rather make the stops on a nice day, but I may stop at the Wright Brothers' airport and Red Stewart field on Saturday if the weather is nice that day. I'd still like to meet up with anyone that would be interested in buzzing over to Grimes or Waco fields.

I was able to get a hotel within a few miles of the main museum, and the bus route goes right by both. George at Moraine said he would be able to run us to the hotel from the airport, so I should be okay without a car. Will save some money that way anyway. He also said he can put the plane in a hangar for $6/night, which seems really reasonable to me, considering most places charge that just to tie down.

It looks like gas just keeps going up, so I'm glad I'm making this trip now before it goes up any more than it already has. I hope we can figure out this Swift fuel so that we can start growing our own avgas.

[smcnutt]

Don't know if I could make it out of Wednesday or not. However, I would add Hendricks County Field (K2R2) as a fuel stop as 100LL.com shows them at $4.98/gal. You might want to call for the latest price as that was dated in Feb but they always seem to have good fuel prices. KRCR is my favorite fuel stop but that's a little out of your way on this trip.

[pa20]

I spent a full day there a few years back. Spent a good portion of that staring at the XB-70 Valkyrie, which in my mind is about the most beautiful thing ever created by man. Yup, I'd say a good solid day would do it.

Kurt

As always, I am late to the party on this thread. I have been to the museum at least 6 times, and have always tried to focus on a different "era" and section each time. However, I invariably end up spending most of my time at the WWII vintage section, and then over to spend another 30 minutes oogling the XB-70. Kurt is correct, that is one of the most beautiful flying machines ever conjured from the minds of men (an women, of course)! There is another less discussed exhibit that you won't read about, but you should not miss.
While you are there, especially in the WWII section, keep an eye out for men and women of the "Greatest Generation" (like my Pop) who were crewmembers on the machines that saw the USA to victory against the Axis powers. They are not hard to find, as most of the guys are usually sporting a cap with their squadron and aircraft. Do not miss an opportunity to hear the stories that have been kept to themselves for all these years. They are as much a part of history as the iron that you are there to see!
Have fun!

[smcnutt]

Should be long gone but there is a Presidential TFR around Dayton Tuesday from 5:30-10:30pm.

[bigjohnnie]

Zac ,
If you are flying around friday mid morning mid afternoon looking for people to meet, stop by kmwo (the northeast section of the field and a red jeep Cherokee) and stop by and say hello. We are doing an annual on one-two papa and would like to meet you see your tripe.
Johnnie

Ps there is a Big Boy restaurant adjacent to the field perfect for a cheap fly-in lunch

[Bob Ohio]

Zac The Ohio Wednesday weather looks good, 3 mph winds, 72 degrees in this area. What time are you thinking about arriving at Grimes? Am about 35 minutes East and thought I might fly over, hit the restaurant, say hello, and look at the B-17 again. Good restaurant on the field, home cooked and if you are hungry at Waco, you can get a good meal at Grimes. What are you ETA plans for Grimes?

Bob

[Zac Weidner]

Should be long gone but there is a Presidential TFR around Dayton Tuesday from 5:30-10:30pm.

I saw that TFR, sure would hate to find out the hard way!


Zac ,
If you are flying around friday mid morning mid afternoon looking for people to meet, stop by kmwo (the northeast section of the field and a red jeep Cherokee) and stop by and say hello. We are doing an annual on one-two papa and would like to meet you see your tripe.
Johnnie

Ps there is a Big Boy restaurant adjacent to the field perfect for a cheap fly-in lunch

I will be flying Wednesday and Saturday, weather permitting. I will stop Saturday if that would work?


Zac The Ohio Wednesday weather looks good, 3 mph winds, 72 degrees in this area. What time are you thinking about arriving at Grimes? Am about 35 minutes East and thought I might fly over, hit the restaurant, say hello, and look at the B-17 again. Good restaurant on the field, home cooked and if you are hungry at Waco, you can get a good meal at Grimes. What are you ETA plans for Grimes?

Bob

I think I'll plan on leaving around 6 am for Waco, putting us there at around 9:30 ET, then straight from there to Grimes. How long should Waco museum take?

[Bob Ohio]

Never been to Waco, but if you like tube and fabric, you will think you are in heaven. Grimes is about 22 miles West of Waco. Will be at Grimes at 11:00am and will be sitting outside drinking coffee. Carol, the Grimes manager is a Tri pacer owner, we will be in good company.


Bob

[Zac Weidner]

Never been to Waco, but if you like tube and fabric, you will think you are in heaven. Grimes is about 22 miles West of Waco. Will be at Grimes at 11:00am and will be sitting outside drinking coffee. Carol, the Grimes manager is a Tri pacer owner, we will be in good company.


Bob

I may not be there until a little after that, depending on how extensive Waco is. They close at noon, so it won't be after that. I'll try to leave by 6 from here, but we lose an hour going East. I would guess to be a little after 11:00, but it may not take very long to go through Waco, either.

[smcnutt]

Wednesday is looking like a possibility for me. That is if you Tri-Pacer's can be seen with a taildragger. :icon_rolleyes: Well mine used to be a Tri and then it had a nose-ectomy before I bought it.:lol:

[Bob Ohio]

No problems on the time Zac. I am a retired farmer like your Grandad. Plenty of time and some money to spend on gasoline. Smcnutt, come on over, nice airport and an excellent restaurant and an interesting collection of warbirds. The sheet metal shop for the B-17 is interesting. They are making skin panels for the 17 and their workmen ship is perfect. Looks like Wednesday will be the best flying day of the week in Central Ohio. Tail draggers, soloed in a 7AC. Was able to do some Stinson flying a few years ago.

Bob

[Zac Weidner]

Wednesday is looking like a possibility for me. That is if you Tri-Pacer's can be seen with a taildragger. :icon_rolleyes: Well mine used to be a Tri and then it had a nose-ectomy before I bought it.:lol:

Hmmm, I don't know if I can do that...I may have to put a window shield in before you get there so it won't see any obscene machines with their tails too low. :lol:

[smcnutt]

Well, I'm taking the day off work and planning on heading over to Grimes. I will aim for 11am as well. We just finished our annual and I have a few things to button up in the morning. Assuming no surprises, I should see you there.

Looking forward to it.

[Bob Ohio]

Checked out the plane, maps on seat. route made up, will leave about 10:10, 35 minutes flight time. See you at Urbana.

Bob

[Zac Weidner]

Well, looks like all my 'friends' backed out on me today. I am going to fly to Waco and Grimes and head home after that. I don't think the Air Force museum would be nearly as exciting by myself for two days. Maybe I can find some people that will actually go with me some weekend to see the museum. The weather looks so nice tomorrow that I need to fly somewhere, and 2 1/2 hours isn't terribly long anyway. I'll plan on being at Waco about 9, when they open, and getting to Grimes around 11:00 or so, maybe closer to noon, depending on how extensive their museum is. Looking forwart to seeing you guys there!

[Bob Mac]

My impression was that the museum was enjoyed much better alone because some of the things that interested me more than others might not have been the same for other folks. But that's just part of my idiosyncracy collection expressing itself

[smcnutt]

Dam, I jinxed myself. My son screwed up his knee playing rugby and I need to take to the doctor. So much for flying

[smcnutt]

Nothing too serious with my son's knee. He popped it and stretched some ligaments but nothing is torn/broken. He's on crutches for a couple of days and then limited for a couple of weeks.

I ended up being able to go out and fly for a few minutes yesterday. Not exactly what I was hoping for but at least I did get to do some flying on my day off.

Hope you guys had fun.

[Bob Ohio]

I landed at 11:00 and Zac was sitting there waiting for me. He looked at my "Junk Heap Special" We talked about the 135hp engine and it being just a fun toy that a 50 year pilot and 75 year old boy has fun flying. Then we went and looked at his trophy. He said it was a pile of parts, disassembled engine , when they bought it. His grandfather who has been a long time pilot and has the farm implied " We have enough junk on the farm and it will probably end up on the farm scrap pile". 5,000 hours later, it became a trophy winner. Grand dad likes to fly it. Had lunch and talked about of family farm backgrounds and went to the B-17.
There were two men working on B-17 sections. This airplane is being built from the original Boeing blue prints and and everything that is missing is being built by hand. The shop has everything to form, shape, bend, roll, structural metals. One person was working on the main tail bulk head that the horizontal stabilizer was mounted to. This retired machinist , had been working on this for a year. The other fellow, was working on an engine housing which had been completely hand built and was doing sheet meat work around a burnt up turbo charger that was installed for fitting buildup. By this time Zac was awe struck and was asking questions and getting answers. Both said you want to help on a project, we need young people like you. I looked around at other planes, and when I came back to say good bye, he was with the engine cell man talking and learning. A very nice quiet young man that has the potential to become an asset in keeping these old antique airplanes flying. The B-17 project is interesting project, especially when the workers are there to talk to.

Bob Ohio

[smcnutt]

Now I'm REAL sorry I missed it....next time.

P.S. Mine is a 135 also. Seems fine to me but I probably just don't know better. ;)

[Zac Weidner]

I flew right over Indianapolis, wasn't sure which airport you are based at though.

I don't know that the two museums were worth 6 hours of avgas, but is was a nice day to fly anyway.
The Waco museum was pretty neat but only took me a little over an hour or so to see. One of the airplanes there has 14,000 hours and was flown almost every night over Kings Island for some kind of airshow until the owner died and the family donated the airplane. There was some Hartzell history also, since apparently there was a relationship between Mr. Weaver and Mr. Hartzell. Hartzell originally made wooden farm wagons, and Mr. Weaver talked him into making aircraft propellers, since there were many problems with inexperienced people making laminated wooden props and not knowing how to properly dry the wood. There was a 22 ft long Hartzell prop off of one of the airships, very big. I stopped at Piqua-Hartzell airport for fuel on the way back, but there wasn't a whole lot there.

There was some sort of group that was touring the museum as I was leaving and it looked like they had a good time watching me depart, since the runway goes right by the buildings.


Grimes is a much more active place. The restaurant was a nice, small one with good food and atmosphere. The B-17 restoration is much more interesting than I had anticipated. I learned why they got such a reputation for ruggedness. Everything is just so beefy looking, almost looks more like a piece of farm equipment than something that should fly. I also realized how much labor was involved in constructing the thousands of B-17's that were produced in only a few years.

The volunteers were trying to recruit me to start making parts for them, but I told them I lived too far away to get started on that. The guy that was working on two of the engine nacelles had been working for 3 years on them, and probably has at least that many more to finish those two, plus two more after that. His estimation is around 20 years to go for the whole project.

They are starting to work on building jigs for the wings, but there is still a lot of time left on the fuselage. All the tail surfaces have to be built yet, and lots of things inside the fuselage.

They had a piece of wing skin that had some signatures and artwork by 3 of the original factory workers.

I can say that this is as real as it gets in terms of restorations. I think I can say that there is no more craftsmanship or skill involved in any other project anywhere. I feel like the Tri-Pacer restoration was more like a rubber band kit plane than a restoration, when compared to this undertaking.