Pacer and Clipper Landing Gear Repair

[Steve Pierce]

The problem I always had was lack of drawings. Built the Clipper gear jig out of necessity because at the time Univair wasn't building them. Luckily we had a few good ones laying around to check. I then obtained a Clipper gear drawing via a spy at Piper 8-) and all is good. Got a Pacer project with a set of new Univair gear legs so used them to build the jig for them. I just think it would be hard to build a jig with nothing but a print in a cost effective way.

[Hillbilly]

Less room for YOUR error, maybe! But... "That's the way we always did it" don't mean it was always right! No way to tell if there's an error built-in to your sample piece, and "not being able to bolt it up" is actually the LEAST important error on a gearleg. Whaddaya think, Hillbilly?

Yes John, I have to agree having the jig making background, But I also feel like a fellow should run his shop as HE sees fit, So I'll back off of good ol Steve here. That being Said Steve, you can use your other jigs as a "template" just substitute the dimensions from the vag gear drawings and build the jig like the others but with vag dimensions.
One last point, fittings bolted to a jig are most always more accurate than fittings welded on. -Hillbilly

[Larry Huntley]

Thanx for the pix Steve. Looks like something maybe even I could do. ;o) Larry

[BalsaBoy]

Steve et. al.,
How can I get a copy of the Vagabond CD you've mentioned? Is this a complete set of plans or just the landing gear? I'm trying to get all the material I can to know my Vag better. Thanks for your help!-Paul

[Gilbert Pierce]

Steve et. al.,
How can I get a copy of the Vagabond CD you've mentioned? Is this a complete set of plans or just the landing gear? I'm trying to get all the material I can to know my Vag better. Thanks for your help!-Paul

Join the ShortWing Piper Club and order the CD from the Short Wing Piper Store. Both can be accomplised at 360-834-6178
You will need the ShortWingPiper Drawing CD as well as the Vagabond CD to get complete coverage.

[Eric Schlanser]

Hi Steve,
I need new gear, both sides, for my PA-15, including the fuselage attach points that were torn off of the right side.
I'm thinking this might be a good time to upgrade to PA-17 gear.

Can you make a set? Have you made your Vag gear jigs yet?

What did hillbilly mean when he said that it would be better for the attach points to be bolted on rather than welded on?

Eric Schlanser

[Gilbert Pierce]

I think what Hillbilly was referring to was bolting the locating fixtures on a jig rather then welding the locating fixtures to the jig frame. Welding causes metal to move and could cause jig errors whereby bolting the locating fixtures to a welded jig frame insures you have not lost accuracy.

[JohnW]

Well! This has sure been interesting...

Eric, just for the record, the gearlegs themselves (on the PA-15 vs the PA-17) are EXACTLY the same part(s). The only difference is that the -17s use a "rubber band sprung" (bungee cord) equipped cabane strut for each gearleg and the -15 uses a simple "tube cabane" on each side. The PA-17 type cabanes are a "bolt-on item". There is very little ACTUAL operational difference between the two "types" of gear, as they actually flex pretty much "the same" (as in, "mot nuch"). Both -in effect- pretty much use ONLY the bouncy properties of the "bulbous" 8:00 x 4 tires that were original equipment on BOTH. You hafta really WHACK DOWN the airplane to get the -17 type gearlegs to "flex", on either "type" of Vagabond. One thing, tho'...if you EVER intend to install skiis on the airplane (per the Federal Dwgs, as allowed on the PA-15 Type Certificate), you NEED to have the PA-17 "sprung" legs (not that the "rubber bands" flex any more at 5 below zero than they do at 75 above (F) installed. See, I GUESS that CAA (FAA) wanted SOME kind of flex available, and when you remove 8:00 x 4 tires on unyielding "hard tube" gear, and install skiis on rock hard pedestals, you don't get ANY flex available for a dropped-in landing ...And, if what you have there is a Vagabond with "more modern wheels and tires, you might actually see an "improvement in the ride" (altho' probably NOT a "marked" one) with the bungee struts, since the sidewalls (and higher tire pressure in the 6:00 x 6s that are USUALLY installed) don't "squish" NEARLY as much as with the balloon "fatties" installed. But then, too, there is NO "ongoing replacement of bungee cords" with the "unsprung" cabanes, every few years.

All that said, the "simple tube cabane" IS a couple miles an hour worth of "less drag" than the PA-17 gear (but...putting PA-15 parts on the PA-17 is NOT "approved" in that "direction". The approval for installing the PA-17 cabanes on the PA-15 comes along via the Type Certificate Note for installing Federal skiis) and is a "logbook entry" as far as "alteration" goes. The choice is in fact a "personal preference", even tho' the result is basically a "perceived" difference in operation. It's a FUN airplane, either way.

[Steve Pierce]

Eric, I have not built any Vagabond gear jigs because I haven't needed to repair any Vagabond gear. Univair would be your best bet at this point.

[Eric Schlanser]

Univair it is for the gear legs.

For the cabanes, I will have to go with the PA-17setup with bungees. Apparantly, the stiff leg cabanes for the PA-15 get replaced with the PA-17 type gear when replacement is necessary as the PA-15 cabanes are not available ready-made. I could make them myself but this is a good excuse to try the bungees. Besides, I might have found some skis and will set the gear up for them in anticipation. Thank you for your help.
Eric S.