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Re: Steve Bryant's Producer
Originally Posted by
Steve Pierce
100-105 mph on 31" Bushwheels.
I see in old threads of this topic, there is no STC for sale. Is that still the case?
Also, did you notice what struts were being used?
"You can only tie the record for flying low."
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Re: Steve Bryant's Producer
Originally Posted by
Stephen
I see in old threads of this topic, there is no STC for sale. Is that still the case?
Also, did you notice what struts were being used?
Stephen,
I have not sold the STC to any individuals directly, but I am reconsidering my stance on that. Many different factors have lead me to this determination. The next step would to figure out what would it would be worth. Opinions?
The struts are the primary parts that are a custom build, and are not a direct Piper part. But, once the tubing work on the fuselage is done, the rest of the build is a combination of Piper parts. - Steve
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Re: Steve Bryant's Producer
Originally Posted by
Airwrench
Stephen,
I have not sold the STC to any individuals directly, but I am reconsidering my stance on that. Many different factors have lead me to this determination. The next step would to figure out what would it would be worth. Opinions?
The struts are the primary parts that are a custom build, and are not a direct Piper part. But, once the tubing work on the fuselage is done, the rest of the build is a combination of Piper parts. - Steve
Steve,
Thanks for the reply. This STC should be popular, especially with a hp increase.
Does the STC use PA 14 or PA 18 wings? This would be significant cost.
I read that PA 18 tail is used. Does this mean PA 18 find and rudder or just the H stab and elevators?
Taking into account the cost of parts needed adding a cost for the STC paperwork.... It is not cheap mod, but it is a significant change to a Pacer.
What performance changes would you expect to see? Steve P says good take off, cruise around 100 mph.
"You can only tie the record for flying low."
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Re: Steve Bryant's Producer
Originally Posted by
Stephen
Steve,
Thanks for the reply. This STC should be popular, especially with a hp increase.
Does the STC use PA 14 or PA 18 wings? This would be significant cost.
I read that PA 18 tail is used. Does this mean PA 18 find and rudder or just the H stab and elevators?
Taking into account the cost of parts needed adding a cost for the STC paperwork.... It is not cheap mod, but it is a significant change to a Pacer.
What performance changes would you expect to see? Steve P says good take off, cruise around 100 mph.
......... The STC is for a PA-22/20 This means that the hp increase is actually a separate STC such as Trimmers, Univair, or a field approval. It doesn't change the TC so all of the STCs applicable to a PA-22 still apply. IE: tires, left door, cub gear, skylight and other amenities.
......... Wings are PA-14 with some internal modifications. (The PA-12 wing can be converted to PA-14 wing with the proper flap installation)
......... The fin is part of the STC, the rudder is standard PA-22 or PA-18 (they are interchangeable) and the horizontal stabilizers and elevators are PA-18.
......... I still contend that it will perform with an equally equipped Super Cub - load for load.
- Steve
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Re: Steve Bryant's Producer
I've seen the one you have for sale up at lake hood. Looks like a nice aircraft. The report Steve gave makes it sound like a real performer, too
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Re: Steve Bryant's Producer
Originally Posted by
Airwrench
......... The STC is for a PA-22/20 This means that the hp increase is actually a separate STC such as Trimmers, Univair, or a field approval. It doesn't change the TC so all of the STCs applicable to a PA-22 still apply. IE: tires, left door, cub gear, skylight and other amenities.
......... Wings are PA-14 with some internal modifications. (The PA-12 wing can be converted to PA-14 wing with the proper flap installation)
......... The fin is part of the STC, the rudder is standard PA-22 or PA-18 (they are interchangeable) and the horizontal stabilizers and elevators are PA-18.
......... I still contend that it will perform with an equally equipped Super Cub - load for load.
- Steve
This sounds like an outstanding mod. Awhile back I was looking at a Bushmaster mod and it seemed like it was a bit heavy. The Producer sounds more like PA 14 weight and performance, which would be great. I was not clear, I did understand that your STC does not provide for a HP increase. I did a few mods on a PA 14 that belongs to a guy in Homer. I loved how it flew.
Finding Cruiser wings would be the trick although, I suppose they could be assembled with all new parts.
"You can only tie the record for flying low."
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Re: Steve Bryant's Producer
Originally Posted by
Airwrench
Stephen,
I have not sold the STC to any individuals directly, but I am reconsidering my stance on that. Many different factors have lead me to this determination. The next step would to figure out what would it would be worth. Opinions?
The struts are the primary parts that are a custom build, and are not a direct Piper part. But, once the tubing work on the fuselage is done, the rest of the build is a combination of Piper parts. - Steve
This is a very interesting discussion. So to be realistic, an STC buyer would want to do the work on an airframe that they were already ready to tear down as I assume the tubing work involves lengthening the fuselage and possibly changing the fin so at least the tail of the aircraft would need to be re-covered. They would most likely end up building new PA12 wings from new parts and modifying them to be like PA14 wings and then installing a PA18 tail. They would then have to custom build some struts and put it all together. So most of the entire airplane would need to be re-covered (wings, horizontal tail, and most of the fuselage).
That's a lot of work; probably worth it but certainly a large effort. I think the STC could be made more valuable if it was sold with struts (just my opinion) as the remaining work is probably pretty straightforward. Maybe Univair or Airframes could make struts to the required dimensions ? If it's too expensive people wouldn't bother to do it because the cost is up there, however you are also the likely the only one with an STC for this modification and it sounds like it makes a nice 4-place performer .. like I said, interesting discussion.
Last edited by sophistical; 06-01-2016 at 12:31 PM.
Reason: correcting mistakes
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Re: Steve Bryant's Producer
Originally Posted by
sophistical
This is a very interesting discussion. So to be realistic, an STC buyer would want to do the work on an airframe that they were already ready to tear down as I assume the tubing work involves lengthening the fuselage and possibly changing the fin so at least the tail of the aircraft would need to be re-covered. They would most likely end up building new PA12 wings from new parts and modifying them to be like PA14 wings and then installing a PA18 tail. They would then have to custom build some struts and put it all together. So most of the entire airplane would need to be re-covered (wings, horizontal tail, and most of the fuselage).
That's a lot of work; probably worth it but certainly a large effort. I think the STC could be made more valuable if it was sold with struts (just my opinion) as the remaining work is probably pretty straightforward. Maybe Univair or Airframes could make struts to the required dimensions ? If it's too expensive people wouldn't bother to do it because the cost is up there, however you are also the likely the only one with an STC for this modification and it sounds like it makes a nice 4-place performer .. like I said, interesting discussion.
Yes, you are reading this about right. It is a lot of work! And yes, it does require a specialized skillset, which fortunately I have seen many example of on this forum. And yes, it can be expensive. And I could probably put together a STC specific kit for the items like the struts and jury struts which are not available from the normal Piper vendors.
For me, I have say that it is worth it, Cub performance with the room to haul large loads. I have hauled complete aircraft engines, 55 gallon drums, skis, tundra tires, and such, while carrying a passenger. I don't think you can do that with a Cub. External loads also......
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Re: Steve Bryant's Producer
Are there any modifications made to the baggage?
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Steve Bryant's Producer
Yes, it's basically a 150, 160 or 180 hp M4 Maule when complete only it would be a mostly new airframe with the new wing and a freshly covered fuselage. Very cool!
Last edited by sophistical; 06-01-2016 at 09:26 PM.
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